POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Metzia 70
1) MONEY OF ORPHANS
(a) (Rav Anan citing Shmuel): We may lend orphans' money on
(b) Rav Nachman: We should not cause them to transgress, they
will be punished for this!
1. What was the case (from which you inferred this)?
(c) Rav Anan: Mar Ukva's orphans had a cauldron by Shmuel; he
rented it to others and also charged them if it decreased
1. To pay both is Ribis!
(d) Rejection (Rav Nachman): One may pay both even to adults
- they pay for the loss of weight, and also rental
because the remaining metal depreciates through usage.
(e) (Rabah bar Shila): One may invest orphans' money on
condition that they can profit but cannot lose. (This is
Avak Ribis, which is normally forbidden mid'Rabanan - by
orphans, Chachamim permit it.)
(f) (Beraisa): One who invests money on condition that he can
profit but cannot lose - he is evil; if he can lose but
cannot profit - he is a Chasid; if he can profit or lose,
or can neither profit nor lose, this as most people do.
(g) Rabah (to Rav Yosef): What do we do with orphans' money?
(h) Rav Yosef: We leave it in Beis Din and give them each Zuz
when they need it.
(i) Rabah: The principal will dissipate!
(j) Rav Yosef: What do you suggest?
(k) Rabah: We find a man that owns pieces of gold; we buy
pieces of gold with their money, and invest it by him, on
condition that they can gain but cannot lose.
1. We cannot use a man that only owns specific things -
perhaps they are a deposit, the owner will tell the
sign and retrieve his deposit.
(l) Objection (Rav Ashi): If we do not find such a man, will
we allow the orphans to consume the principal?!
(m) (Rav Ashi): Rather, we find a man whose property is
uncontested; he must be trustworthy, knowledgeable of
Torah law and acquiescent to Beis Din. We invest the
money with him in Beis Din, on condition that they can
gain but cannot lose.
2) TZON BARZEL
(a) (Mishnah): We may not accept Tzon Barzel from a Yisrael;
since it is Ribis;
3) RIBIS FROM NOCHRIM
1. We may accept from a Nochri.
(b) We may borrow from or lend to a Nochri or Ger Toshav (a
Nochri that accepted to guard his 7 Mitzvos) on Ribis;
(c) We may lend a Nochri's money according to his will, not
according to the Yisrael's.
(d) (Gemara) Inference: (Since this is called Ribis,) we may
infer that Tzon Barzel belongs to the receiver (he
suffers any losses (Rashi - and the profits are shared;
Tosfos - the investor is guaranteed a fixed revenue)).
(e) Contradiction (Mishnah): One who accepts Tzon Barzel from
a Nochri, the law of the firstborn does not apply to the
offspring , which proves that it belongs to the Nochri.
(f) Answer #1 (Abaye): If the investor bears any decrease in
value of the goods or any Ones, it is considered his; if
not, it is the receiver's.
(g) Objection #1 (Rava): If the investor bears any decrease
in value or Ones, that is not Tzon Barzel!
(h) Objection #2 (Rava): The end of the Mishnah permits
accepting Tzon Barzel from a Nochri - it should
distinguish within the case of Yisrael, if the investor
bears any decrease in value or Ones, it is permitted!
(i) Answer #2 (Rava): Rather, in both cases the investor does
not bear decrease in value or Ones;
1. The law of firstborn does not apply because if the
Yisrael does not return the estimated value, the
Nochri will take the animal, and if he cannot, he
will take the offspring;
2. Whenever a Nochri has rights in an animal, the law
of firstborn does not apply.
(a) Question: "One who gets rich through Ribis, l'Chonen
Dalim Yikbetzenu (the one who is gracious to the poor
will take it)" - who is this?
(b) Answer (Rav): People such as Shevor Malka (the Persian
king, who would take from Yisrael and give to the
Nochrim, who are poor in Mitzvos).
(c) Version #1 (Rav Nachman): The verse teaches that even one
who lends to a Nochri on Ribis will lose his money.
(d) Question (Rava): "La'Nochri Sashich";
1. Suggestion: We read this "Sashuch" (you will take
Ribis from him).
(e) Answer: No, we read "Sashich" (you will pay Ribis to
(f) Question: Is that a Mitzvah?!
(g) Answer: No - it comes to exclude a Yisrael, to whom you
may not pay Ribis.
(h) Question: "Ul'Achicha Lo Sashich" forbids that!
(i) Answer: "La'Nochri Sashich" adds a prohibition derived
from a Mitzvas Ase.
(j) Question (Mishnah): We may borrow from or lend to a
Nochri or Ger Toshav on Ribis.
(k) Answer #1 (R. Chiya brei d'Rav Huna): The Mishnah only
permits one to take Ribis from a Nochri if he needs it to
(l) Answer #2 (Ravina): The Mishnah only permits a Chacham;
1. Rav Nachman forbids lending a Nochri on Ribis lest
one learn from his deeds - a Chacham would not learn
from his deeds.