POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Metzia 24
1) WHEN A CHACHAM MAY LIE
(a) (Rav Yehudah): Chachamim may lie to cover up three
things: what they know (they can deny knowing a tractate
on account of modesty), when they had relations, and good
treatment they received from their host (in order that
unfitting people will not flock to their host).
2) WHAT R. SHIMON BEN ELAZAR PERMITS
(b) Question: What is the significance of this teaching?
(c) Answer (Mar Zutra): One who only lies about these 3
things is considered a Chacham, that we return a lost
object to him if he recognizes it.
(d) A silver cup was stolen from Mar Zutra Chasida's host. He
noticed a Talmid drying his hands on someone else's
garment. He reasoned - if he does not mind using
another's property, he is the thief. He confronted him;
the Talmid confessed.
(a) (Beraisa): R. Shimon ben Elazar agrees by new vessels
that a person recognizes, that he must announce them.
1. The following vessels, when new, are not recognized:
Badei (sticks from which stick out) needles or
hooks, or a string of forks (for weaving gold).
(b) (Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Elazar): One may keep the
following: what he saves from a lion, bear, leopard,
polecat, what he finds deposited by the high tide, at the
bottom of the river, in a big encampment or thoroughfare,
or any place where many people pass;
2. These are only permitted when one is found - if two
are found, he must announce them.
i. 'Badei' means branches, as a Mishnah teaches
(The minimum requirement for willow branches
is) one leaf on each branch.
1. This is because the owner despairs.
(c) Question: Did R. Shimon ben Elazar say this only in a
city that is mostly Nochrim, or even in a city that is
1. Question: If you will say even in a city that is
mostly Yisrael - do Chachamim argue on him?
(d) Answer #1 (Beraisa): One who finds coins in a Beis
Keneses, Beis Medrash or any place where many people go,
he may keep them, because the owner despairs.
2. Question: If you will say that Chachamim argue - is
that only in a city that is mostly Yisrael - or even
in a city that is mostly Nochrim?
3. Question: If you will say that Chachamim argue even
in a city that is mostly Nochrim -does the Halachah
follow R. Shimon?
4. Question: If you will say that the Halachah follows
R. Shimon - is that only in a city that is mostly
Nochrim, or even in a city that is mostly Yisrael?
1. The Tana must be R. Shimon ben Elazar, who is
concerned for places where many pass - and he
permits even in a Beis Keneses, where mostly
(e) Answer #2 (Mishnah): One who found a lost object in a
city with Yisraelim and Nochrim - if the majority are
Yisrael, he must announce it; if the majority are
Nochrim, he need not announce,
2. Rejection #1: The case is, the coins are scattered
(even Chachamim in our Mishnah permit this).
3. Objection: But the Tana only permits in a place
where many people go!
4. Rejection #2: Really, the coins are wrapped
together; the Beraisa refers to a Beis Keneses
(meeting place) of Nochrim.
i. Question: The Beraisa also permits in a Beis
Medrash - how can we answer that?
5. Rejection #3: Also by a Beis Keneses, we can say it
is of Yisraelim, but is inhabited by Nochrim.
ii. Answer: It is a Beis Medrash of Yisraelim,
inhabited by Nochrim (guarding it).
1. The Tana must be R. Shimon, who is concerned for
places where many pass - and he only permits when
the majority are Nochrim!
(f) Rejection: No, the Tana holds as Chachamim.
(g) Answer #3: We may conclude that Chachamim admit to R.
Shimon ben Elazar when the majority are Nochrim!
(h) Rejection #1: Really, the Tana is R. Shimon, and he
permits even in a city that is mostly Yisrael;
1. In the Mishnah, the lost object was covered.
2. Question: If so, he should not touch it!
i. (Mishnah): One who finds a vessel in a
wasteheap - if covered, he should not touch it;
if exposed, he takes it and announces.
3. Answer (as Rav Papa said elsewhere): It is a
wasteheap that the owner usually does not clear out
for a while, and he decided to clear it out
(therefore, even though it is covered, he takes it).
(i) Rejection #2: Really, the Tana of the Mishnah holds as
Chachamim; they did not say that when the majority is
Nochrim it become his, just that he need not announce it;
3) FOUND OBJECTS IN PUBLIC PLACES
1. If a Yisrael will give a Siman , he must return it
to the Yisrael.
(j) Answer #3 (Rav Asi): One who finds a barrel of wine in a
city that is mostly Nochrim - he may keep it (regarding
laws of found objects), but it is forbidden to benefit
from it (for it is likely to be the wine of the Nochrim);
1. If a Yisrael gives a Siman , the finder (keeps it
and) may drink it.
(k) Rejection: Really, R. Shimon permits even when the
majority are Yisraelim; Rav Asi only holds as R. Shimon
when the majority are Nochrim.
2. This is as R. Shimon - he only permits when the
majority are Nochrim!
(l) Question: Since it is forbidden to benefit from - why
bother saying that he may keep it (regarding laws of
(m) Answer (Rav Ashi): He may use the vessel it was in.
(n) A man found four Zuz wrapped in a sheet and thrown in the
river Biran. Rav Yehudah ruled that he must announce it.
(o) Question: But this is as something deposited by the high
tide (surely, the owner despaired)!
(p) Answer: The river Biran is different - since they dam it
up, the owner would not despair.
(q) Inference: The majority of people there are Nochrim - we
conclude that the Halachah does not follow R. Shimon,
even by a majority of Nochrim!
(r) Rejection: Most of the people that dam up the river are
Yisraelim, therefore he does not despair.
(a) Question (Rav Yehudah): One who finds a wallet in the
market of shredded wheat - what is the law?
(b) Answer (Shmuel): He may keep it.
(c) Question (Rav Yehudah): What if a Yisrael came and gave
(d) Answer (Shmuel): He must return it.
(e) Question: That contradicts the previous answer!
(f) Answer: He should go beyond the letter of the law and
1. Shmuel's father found donkeys in the wilderness; he
returned them to the owner after 12 months - this
was beyond the letter of the law.
(g) Question (Rava): One who finds a wallet in the market of
shoemakers (some say, Chachamim)- what is the law?
(h) Answer (Rav Nachman): He may keep it.
(i) Question (Rava): What if a Yisrael came and gave Siman s?
(j) Answer (Rav Nachman): The finder keeps it.
(k) Question: But the loser is screaming that it is his!
(l) Answer: He is as someone screaming over his house that
burned or his ship that sank.
(m) A vulture took meat from the market and deposited it
among bar Meryon's date trees. Abaye ruled that he keeps
(n) Inference: The majority of people in the area are
Yisraelim - we conclude that the Halachah follows R.
Shimon, even when the majority are Yisrael!
(o) Rejection: No, something taken by a vulture is as
something deposited by the sea.
(p) Question: But Rav said that meat that is not constantly
watched is forbidden!
(q) Answer: The case is, he was watching from when the meat
(r) R. Chanina found a slaughtered kid between Tiverya and
1. He was permitted to keep it - this ruling was like
(s) R. Ami found slaughtered chicks between Tiverya and
Tzipori, and R. Yitzchak Nafcha found threads for twining
ropes; they were permitted to keep them.
2. The slaughter was assumed to be Kosher - this ruling
was like R. Chananya, son of R. Yosi ha'Galili.
i. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): A man lost his kids and
chickens, and found them slaughtered - they are
3. Since the slaughter was permitted - it must be that
the city is mostly Yisrael, and R. Shimon permits
even in this case!
ii. R. Chananyah permits them.
iii. Rebbi says, if they were found in the
wasteheap, the Halachah follows R. Yehudah; if
they were found in the house, the Halachah
follows R. Chananyah.
4. Rejection (Rava): No - the city was mostly Nochrim,
the slaughter was permitted because most of the
slaughterers were Yisrael.