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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Kama 23

BAMA KAMA 23 & 24 - This daf has been dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Esther Chaya Rayzel bas Gershon Eliezer, upon her Yahrzeit and Yom Kevurah, by her daughter and son-in-law, Jeri and Eli Turkel. Esther Friedman was a woman of valor who was devoted to her family and gave of herself unstintingly, inspiring all those around her.


(a) What problem does Rava have with Rebbi Yochanan (who holds 'Isho Mishum Chitzav') from the Torah's exemption of 'Tamun ba'Eish'?

(b) Even without the D'rashah from "Petza Tachas Patza", how do we know that Chitzav is liable for Tamun, too?

(c) So how does Rava initially establish 'Tamun'?

(d) On what grounds do we reject Rava's explanation?

(a) So we relearn Rebbi Yochanan, who now obligates every Eish because of Mamon, as well as Chitzav.
In which case will one be Chayav because of Mamon, even though he is no longer Chayav because of Chitzav ('Kalu Lo Chitzav').

(b) Seeing as Rebbi Yochanan concedes to Resh Lakish that 'Isho Mishum Mamono', what are now the ramifications of the Machlokes between Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish?

(c) The 'four things' are Nezek, Tza'ar, Ripuy and Sheves.
Why is he not Chayav Boshes as well?

(a) Why did we not state the basic difference between the two opinions as being when the fire did not belong to the person who did the damage (as we explained earlier) in cases when the animal who caused the damage did not spread the fire with its body?

(b) How did we interpret the ramifications of their Machlokes until now?

(a) According to Rebbi Yochanan, the Tana obligates the owner of the dog to pay half of the damage on the haystack. We ask why the owner of the coal not liable on the other half.
How much ought he to pay, according to Resh Lakish?

(b) We therefore establish the Mishnah when the owner of the coal guarded his coal to the best of his ability.
In that case, how did the dog manage to obtain it?

(c) What principle can we extrapolate from this?

(d) Where must the dog have eaten the cake?

(a) What She'eilah was asked regarding a cow's mouth?

(b) What are the ramifications of the She'eilah?

(c) How do we try to resolve the She'eilah from our Mishnah?

Answers to questions



(a) If a cow's mouth is considered to be the owner's domain, how does Rav Mari Brei de'Rav Kahana initially establish the standard case of 'Shen'?

(b) What is wrong with this interpretation of 'Shen'?

(c) Ravina and Rav Ashi therefore add to the above 'Shaf Tzalmi' and 'Pas'i Pesu'i' respectively.
What is the meaning of ...

  1. ... 'Shaf Tzalmi'?
  2. ... 'Pas'i Pesu'i'?
(a) We learned in a Beraisa that if Reuven incited a dog or a snake to bite Shimon, he is Patur.
What do we infer from this Beraisa that appears to resolve the She'eilah of 'Pi Parah ... '?

(b) We refute this however, in two ways. One of them amends the Beraisa to read 'Patur *Af* Meshaseh', implying that the owner of the animal is certainly Patur.
What is the other answer?

(a) In another Beraisa, where Reuven places a snake's mouth on Shimon's hand and it bites and kills him, Rebbi Yehudah declares him Chayav Miysah.
What do the Chachamim say?

(b) Rav Acha bar Ya'akov bases the Machlokes on where the snake's poison is situated.
Where is it situated, according to ...

  1. ... Rebbi Yehudah?
  2. ... the Rabbanan?
(c) How will this explain the Machlokes? (d) Assuming 'Pi Parah ke'Chatzar ha'Mazik', on what grounds does Rebbi Yehudah render him Chayav Miysah?
(a) What does the Beraisa say about Reuven's (Mu'ad) ox which gored Shimon and killed him, when he entered Reuven's Chatzer without permission vis-a-vis ...
  1. ... the ox?
  2. ... the owner? Is he obligated to pay Kofer?
(b) What do we prove from this Beraisa?
(a) What did Abaye reply when Rav Yosef asked him to go and instruct his (Rav Yosef's) neighbors the B'nei Tarbu to lock up their oxen that were causing him damage?

(b) If every potential Nizak were indeed to put up a fence, then, apart from the eventuality that the Mazik's animal digs underneath the fence, as we learned earlier), how else would there ever be a case of Shen?

(c) What did Rav Yosef (or Rabah) announce regarding the goats that were designated for Shechitah that were causing damage? What did he obligate the owner to do after receiving a couple of warnings?

(d) What did he mean when he began his announcement with the words 'de'Salkin le'Eila de'Nachsin le'Tata'?

(a) According to Rebbi Yehudah, an ox becomes a Mu'ad after having been warned on three consecutive days.
On what condition does it regain its status of Tam?

(b) According to Rebbi Meir, how does the ox become ...

  1. ... a Mu'ad?
  2. ... a Tam once again?
(c) According to Abaye, who learns two D'rashos from the word "mi'T'mol", what does Rebbi Yehudah learn from the Pasuk in Mishpatim "ve'Im Shor Nagach Hu *mi'T'mol* *Shilshom* *ve'Lo Yishmerenu Be'alav"*?

(d) In which point does Rava argue with Abaye?

Answers to questions

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