(Permission is granted to print and redistribute this material
as long as this header and the footer at the end are included.)


prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

Previous daf

Bava Kama 12

BAVA KAMA 12 - dedicated by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld in honor of the Bris of their nephew, Yair Leb Mandelbrot.


(a) The Dayanim of Pumbedisa authorised a creditor to claim an Eved from Yesomim.
What instructions did Rav Nachman issue to Rav Chana bar Bizna, when he did the same thing in Neherda'a? What threat accompanied his instructions?

(b) On what grounds did Rava query his Rebbe, Rav Nachman's ruling?

(c) Rav Nachman answered with a Beraisa cited by Avimi 'P'ruzbul Chal al ha'Karka ... Metaltelin Niknin Im Karka'. What does the Tana say about ...

  1. ... writing a P'ruzbul on Avadim?
  2. ... acquiring Metaltelin together with Avadim?
(d) What is the basis of these two rulings?
(a) What does another Beraisa say about someone who wishing to purchase ...
  1. ... Avadim and Karka, makes a Kinyan on the Karka only? Does he acquire the Avadim?
  2. ... Avadim and Metaltelin, makes a Kinyan on the Avadim only? Does he acquire the Metaltelin?
(b) How do we initially resolve this Beraisa with another Beraisa 'Hichzik ba'Avadim, Kanah Metaltelin'?

(c) Rav Ika B'rei de'Rav Ami establishes that both Beraisos hold 'Avadim ki'Mekarkai Dami'.
Then how does he explain the former Beraisa?

(d) What is the significance of "Arei Metzuros bi'Yehudah" in this context?

(a) In a second Lashon, Rav Ika B'rei de'Rav Ami establishes that both Beraisos hold that 'Avadim ki'Metalteli Dami'.
Then how does he explain the latter Beraisa ('Hichzik ba'Avadim, Kanah Metaltelin')?

(b) With which Kinyan does he now acquire the Metaltelin?

(c) What objection do we raise to this?

(d) Bearing in mind Rav's principle that when a moving object cannot acquire, the fact that it is static will make no difference, how does he finally establish the Beraisa?

(a) In light of what we learned earlier 'Hichzik be'Karka, Lo Kanah Avadim', how will we establish another Beraisa 'Hichzik be'Karka, Kanah Avadim'?

(b) What will we now extrapolate with regard to the earlier Beraisa?

(c) How does this pose a Kashya on the Lashon of Rav Ika B'rei de'Rav Ami that holds 'Avadim ki'Mekarka'i Dami'? What did Shmuel say about someone who purchased ten fields in ten different countries?

(d) Why will the Kashya be equally applicable according to the Lashon of Rav Ika B'rei de'Rav Ami which holds 'Avdi ki'Metalteli Dami'?

5) How do we answer both Kashyos in one stroke?

Answers to questions



(a) What do we extrapolate from the Lashon in our Mishnah 'Nechasim she'Ein Lahem Me'ilah'?

(b) What sort of Kodshim are we talking about? Who is the Tana who considers such Kodshim to be the personal property of the owner?

(c) How does he extrapolate this from the Pasuk in Vayikra "u'Ma'alah Ma'al *ba'Hashem*"? What is that Pasuk there talking about?

(d) How do we reconcile the Mishnah in Kidushin 'ha'Mekadesh be'Chelko Bein be'Kodshei Kodshim, Bein be'Kodshim Kalim, Einah Mekudeshes' with Rebbi Yossi Hagelili?

(a) The Mishnah in Temurah permits selling a live unblemished Bechor. Assuming that the Tana is referring to a Bechor nowadays (which is unfit to be brought as a Korban), as we shall soon prove, what can the purchaser then do with it?

(b) The Tana permits selling it specifically when it is alive.
What will be the Din be with regard to selling a Tam Shachut?

(c) And what does the Tana say about selling a Ba'al Mum?

(d) 'u'Mekadshin Bo es ha'Ishah'.
To whom does this pertain?

(a) We have already cited Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah, who establishes the Reisha of the Mishnah in Temurah nowadays, when the Bechor cannot be brought as a Korban.
What did Rava ask Rav Nachman from Rebbi Yossi Hagelili?

(b) To answer Rava's Kashya, Ravina establishes the Mishnah in Temurah by a Bechor in Eretz Yisrael, and Rebbi Yossi Hagelili, by a Bechor in Chutz la'Aretz, like Rebbi Shimon. What does Rebbi Shimon say one should do with a Bechor Tam in Chutz la'Aretz during the time of the Beis Hamikdash ...

  1. ... Lechatchilah?
  2. ... if, Bedieved, it was sent to Eretz Yisrael from Chutz la'Aretz?
(c) Based on the understanding that Rebbi Yossi considers live Kodshim Kalim the property of the owner, what problem do we now have with Ravina? What alternative might Ravina have presented to answer the Kashya on Rav Nachman from the Mishnah in Temurah?

(d) Why in fact, did he decline to give that answer? Why will even Rebbi Yossi Hagelili agree with the Rabbanan by Bechor?

9) Why does Ravina create a problem by establishing the Beraisa of "u'Ma'alah Ma'al ba'Hashem (Rebbi Yossi Hagelili) by Bechor, rather than by Shelamim?

Answers to questions

Next daf


For further information on
subscriptions, archives and sponsorships,
contact Kollel Iyun Hadaf,