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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Kama 11

BAVA KAMA 11 - dedicated by Reb Gedalia Weinberger of New York, an Ohev Torah and Marbitz Torah whose tireless efforts on behalf of Klal Yisroel have produced enormous benefits for the Lomdei Hadaf over the years.


(a) We just refuted the suggestion that the Tana Kama of the Beraisa ('Yavi Eidim le'Beis-Din') and Aba Shaul ('Yavi Adudah le'Beis-Din') argue over P'chas Neveilah, to avoid creating a problem with Rav (or Rava ['Lo Nitzr'cha Ela li'P'chas Neveilah']), and we conclude that both Tana'im hold 'P'chas Neveilah de'Nizak'.
What then is the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) What does Acheirim learn from the Pasuk "*Kesef Yashiv le'Be'alav, ve'ha'Meis* Yih'yeh Lo'?

(c) Assuming that a carcass is worth more outside the pit than inside it, what problem did Abaye have with Acheirim's Drashah?

(d) What did Rava answer him? What saying did he quote to back this up?

(a) What did Shmuel mean when he said 'Ein Shamin Lo le'Ganav ve'lo le'Gazlan'? What is the Din by Nezikin?

(b) What problem do we have with his conclusion 'va'Ani Omer Af le'Sho'el, ve'Aba Modeh Li'? Who is Aba?

(c) We try to solve our problem from an episode where someone broke a bolt that he borrowed from his friend, and Rav ruled that he must replace the bolt with a new one, that Shmuel must have meant 'Ein Shamin'.
How do we counter this proof? What did Rav Kahana and Rav Asi exclaim?

(d) 'Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar Shamin le'Ganav u'le'Gazlan. Rav Papi Amar Ein Shamin'.
What is the Halachah in the case of ...

  1. ... Ganav and Gazlan?
  2. ... a borrower?
(a) What will be the Din if a Shilya (a placenta) appears without a baby inside? Why is that?

(b) A woman who gives birth - is Tamei if she does not see any blood (and this is known as a 'Leidah Yeveshta').

(c) What is the criterion that renders the woman Tamei Tum'as Leidah with regard to a Shilya?

(a) What does Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar say about a Shilya, part of which emerged on one day, and the remainder on the next? Why is that?

(b) What objection does Rava raise to the original text of Rebbi Elazar's ruling?

(c) So how does Rava amend the text to read?

(d) How many days does she subsequently count ...

  1. ... of Tum'ah?
  2. ... of Taharah? Why is that?
(a) What is the underlying principle on which Rebbi Elazar's Chidush is based?

(b) How would the Din differ were it not for this principle?

(c) On what grounds does the Mishnah in Chulin forbid eating part of a Shilya of an animal that emerges whilst the mother is still alive? What is the criterion for part of an animal that emerges from the womb (even if it returns) to be forbidden, even assuming that it returned into the womb and one subsequently Shechted the mother?

(d) Does the Mishnah draw any distinction between the Shilya of an animal and that of a human?

(a) What problem does the Mishnah in Chulin now pose on Rebbi Elazar's ruling?

(b) To resolve this problem, we explain that, without Rebbi Elazar, we might have thought 'Yesh Miktzas Shilya be'Lo V'lad'.
Then why would the Tana have forbidden even part of the Shilya that emerged?

(c) And why would this decree not apply to a human Shilya?

Answers to questions



(a) What did Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar say about a first-born son who is killed during the first thirty days?

(b) But don't we already know this from the Pasuk in Korach "u'Feduyav mi'Ben Chodesh Tifdeh"?

(c) How does the Beraisa quoted by Rami bar Chama learn this from the Pasuk there "Ach Padoh Sifdeh es Bechor ha'Adam"?

(a) We learned in a Mishnah in Kidushin that a large animal is acquired by means of a Kinyan Mesirah.
On what basis then, does Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar say 'with Meshichah'?

(b) What does Rebbi Shimon there hold?

(c) Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar also says that, when brothers divide their father's estate, we assess the clothes that *they* (but not their [wives - Rosh, and] children) are wearing (out of the estate).
Why is that?

(d) What was Rav Papa then referring to when he said that sometimes one does not even assess the clothes that 'they' are wearing?

(a) Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar also ruled that a Shomer who hands the article he is guarding to another Shomer for safekeeping, is Patur. This is certainly the case if a Shomer Chinam hands it to a Shomer Sachar, where he improves the Shemirah.
Will it also pertain to the reverse case, where he lowers the level of Shemirah?

(b) What are the ramifications of this ruling? What are we exempting him from?

(c) Rava disagrees.
What does Rava say?

(d) What is the reason for this?

(a) Ula Amar Rebbi Elazar also said that a creditor may claim Avadim in lieu of his debt.
What did Ula reply when Rav Nachman asked him ...
  1. ... whether he meant even from the Yesomim (assuming that the borrower had died)?
  2. ... that this was obvious?
(b) What is so obvious about the fact that a creditor can claim the Eved directly from the debtor?

(c) In fact, he connected this Halachah with a statement of Rava.
What did Rava say about someone who designated ...

  1. ... his Eved as an Apotiki and then sold him?
  2. ... his ox as an Apotiki and then sold it?
(d) Why the difference?
(a) What did Ula say after Rav Nachman had left?

(b) What did Rav Nachman comment when he got to hear about it?

(c) What was Ula afraid of?

Answers to questions

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