POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Kama 12
BAVA KAMA 12 - dedicated by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld in honor of the Bris of
their nephew, Yair Leb Mandelbrot.
1) ARE SLAVES CONSIDERED AS LAND?
(a) (Ula citing R. Elazar): The law is, we collect debts from
2) ACQUISITION BY WAY OF LAND AND SLAVES WITH KINYAN AGAV
(b) Question (Rav Nachman): Did R. Elazar say we even collect
slaves from orphans?
(c) Answer (Ula): No, only from the borrower himself.
1. Question: That is no Chidush - we collect even the
shirt a borrower is wearing!
(d) Retraction (Ula): R. Elazar said, we collect slaves even
2. Answer: The case is, the slave was made an Apotiki
(special collateral to pay the loan - it is
collected even if it was sold).
i. (Rava): If a man made his slave an Apotiki and
sold him, a creditor collects the slave;
ii. If a man made his ox an Apotiki and sold it, a
creditor does not collect it.
iii. Question: What is the difference between them?
iv. Answer: People hear about making a slave an
Apotiki, not about making an ox an Apotiki (so
it is not fair that take the ox from the
1. Rav Nachman: Cases occurred - the judges of Nehardai
collected slaves from orphans, and so did R. Chana
bar Bizna in Pumbadisa.
2. Rav Nachman (to the judges): Return the slaves - if
not, I will make you pay from your houses!
3. Rava: R. Elazar, Ula, the judges of Nehardai and R.
Chana bar Bizna all say that we collect - on whom do
you rely to oppose this?
4. Rav Nachman: I rely on the Beraisa that Avimi
i. (Beraisa): Pruzbul (a document handing over
loans to Beis Din, so they will not be
cancelled in Shemitah) takes effect (if the
lender has) land; it does not takes effect on
ii. Metaltelim (movable objects) can be acquired
with (an acquisition of land), not with an
acquisition of slaves.
(a) Suggestion: Tana'im argue whether slaves are as land.
1. (Beraisa #1): Shimon was buying slaves and land. If
he did a Chazakah to acquire the slaves, he did not
acquire the land; if he did a Chazakah to acquire
the land, he does not acquire the slaves.
i. If he was buying land and Metaltelim - if he
did a Chazakah to acquire the land, he did not
acquire the Metaltelim; if he made an
acquisition on the Metaltelim, he does not
acquire the land.
2. (Beraisa #2): If he did a Chazakah to acquire the
slaves, he acquires the Metaltelim.
ii. If he was buying slaves and Metaltelim - if he
did a Chazakah to acquire the slaves, he did
not acquire the Metaltelim; if he made an
acquisition on the Metaltelim, he does not
acquire the slaves.
3. Suggestion: The first Tana (Beraisa #1) holds,
slaves are as Metaltelim; the other Tana holds, they
are as land.
4. [Version #1 - Rejection (Rav Ika brei d'Rav Ami):
All agree, slaves are as land;
i. The first Tana holds that Metaltelim are only
acquired with land such as "Fortified cities in
Yehudah" (the source for acquisition along with
land), i.e. stationary land.
5. [Version #2 - Rejection (Rav Ika brei d'Rav Ami):
All agree, slaves are as Metaltelim;
ii. (Mishnah): Property without Acharayos (i.e.
Metaltelim) are acquired with property with
Acharayos, through money, a document or
iii. Question: From where do we know this?
iv. Answer (Chizkiyah): "He gave them...gold,
silver and nice things with fortified cities in
i. The second Tana said that Metaltelim are
acquired with slaves - he refers to the clothes
the slave is wearing.
6. Question (Beraisa #3): A Chazakah to acquire the
land also acquires the slaves!
ii. Question: What does it help if he is wearing
them - a slave is as a moving yard, which does
not acquire Metaltelim inside it!
iii. Suggestion: Perhaps the case is, the slave is
iv. Rejection: Rava taught, anything that does not
acquire when it moves, does not acquire when it
v. Answer: If the slave is tied up (he cannot
move), what he is wearing is acquired with him.
7. Answer: That is when the slaves are standing in the
8. (Inference): If so, Beraisa #1 says that they are
not acquired even when standing in the land!
i. This fits Version #1, that slaves are as
Metaltelim - Metaltelim are only acquired with
land if they are on that land.
9. Question: According to Version #2, slaves are as
land - what is the difference whether they are in
the land or not?
i. (Shmuel): Reuven was buying lands in different
places - he makes a Chazakah on 1 and acquires
ii. Counter-question: According to Version #1,
slaves are as Metaltelim - what is the
difference whether they are in the land or not
- we hold, Metaltelim are acquired with land
even if they are not on that land!
3) OWNERSHIP OF KODSHIM KALIM
iii. Answer: You must say, Metaltelim that move are
different than Metaltelim that do not move.
10. Answer: We can likewise say, land that moves is
different than land that does not move!
i. Slaves are land that moves; Shmuel spoke of
(regular) land - all land is connected.
(a) (Mishnah): Property to which Me'ilah does not apply.
(b) (Inference): There is no Me'ilah by them, but they are
(c) Question: Who is the Tana of the Mishnah?
(d) Answer (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah speaks of Kodshei
Kalim; it is as R. Yosi ha'Galili, who says that they are
the property of their owner.
1. (Beraisa): "He transgressed in Hash-m (and denied
his fellowman)" - this includes Kodshei Kalim, which
(pertain to Hash-m and) are (also) a person's
(e) (Mishnah): One who is Mekadesh with his portion of
Kodshim, whether Kodshei Kodoshim or Kodshei Kalim, the
Kidushin is invalid.
(f) Suggestion: This Mishnah is not as R. Yosi ha'Galili!
(g) Rejection: It can even be as R. Yosi ha'Galili - he only
said that Kodshei Kalim are the property of the owners in
the life of the animal;
1. After slaughter, he admits, they are considered
Hash-m's, just we are allowed to eat them.
(h) Question: Does R. Yosi ha'Galili really hold that Kodshei
Kalim are the property of the owners in the life of the
1. (Mishnah): An unblemished firstborn animal may be
sold when alive; if it is blemished, it may be sold
alive or slaughtered; (the Kohen) may use it to
Mekadesh a woman.
(i) Answer: Gifts to the Kohen are not as other Kodshei
Kalim, they are Hash-m's (just the Kohen is allowed to
2. (Rav Nachman): This is only nowadays - since it
cannot be offered, Kohanim own it;
i. When the Mikdash stands, Kohanim do not own it.
3. Question (Rava - Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Galili): "He
transgressed in Hash-m" - this includes Kodshei
Kalim, which are a person's property.
4. Answer (Ravina): The Beraisa speaks of a firstborn
animal in Chutz la'Aretz, according to R. Shimon;
i. He holds, if they were brought to the Mikdash
unblemished, they are offered; L'chatchilah, we
do not bring them.
5. (Summation of question): If R. Yosi ha'Galili says
that they are a person's money while they are alive,
Ravina should rather have answered, the Beraisa is
as R. Yosi ha'Galili!