POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Kama 11
BAVA KAMA 11 - dedicated by Reb Gedalia Weinberger of New York, an Ohev
Torah and Marbitz Torah whose tireless efforts on behalf of Klal Yisroel
have produced enormous benefits for the Lomdei Hadaf over the years.
1) LOSS IN VALUE OF THE CARCASS
(a) Suggestion: Tana'im argue regarding loss in value of the
2) FOR WHOM DO WE EVALUATE [THE VALUE OF THE CARCASS]?
1. (Beraisa): "(The watchman) will bring Ed" - he
brings Edim (witnesses) that it became Treifah
through Ones (beyond his control) to exempt himself;
(b) Question (Abaye): What is the case of toil to retrieve
2. Aba Sha'ul says, he brings Edudah (the carcass) to
3. Suggestion: The first Tana holds, the damagee
suffers regarding loss in value of the carcass; Aba
Sha'ul holds, the damager suffers the loss.
4. Rejection: No - all agree, the damagee suffers the
loss - they argue regarding who must toil to
5. Support (Beraisa - Others): "He will return money to
the owner, and the carcass" - this teaches that the
owner of the pit must take the carcass out of the
1. Suggestion: If it is worth 1 Zuz in the pit, and 4
Zuz on the edge of the pit - the pit owner toils for
(c) Answer (Rava): The case is, it is worth 1 Zuz in the pit,
and also on the edge of the pit.
(d) Question: Is that ever the case?
(e) Answer: Yes - as people say, a beam in the city is worth
1 Zuz, the same as in the wilderness.
(a) (Shmuel): We do not evaluate (the value of carcass
towards the required payment) for thieves or robbers,
only for damagers - my father and I say, even for a
3) OTHER TEACHINGS OF ULA (FROM R. ELAZAR)
(b) Question: Does he mean, even for a borrower we do
evaluate, or we do not?
(c) Answer: A man borrowed an axe and broke it; Rav ruled
that he must pay the full value of an axe.
1. This shows that we do not evaluate for borrowers.
(d) Rejection: To the contrary! Rav Kahana and Rav Asi asked
Rav if that was really the law, and Rav was silent!
1. This shows that we do evaluate for borrowers!
(e) (Ula): We evaluate for thieves or robbers.
(f) (Rav Papi): We do not evaluate for them.
1. The law is, we do not evaluate for them, but we do
evaluate for a borrower, as Rav Kahana and Rav Asi.
(a) (Ula): A fetal sac that partially left the womb on
Sunday, and part came out on Monday -the days of Tum'ah
(of childbirth) start from Sunday.
(b) Question (Rava): Are you being stringent? This stringency
will lead to a leniency, for she will consider herself
Tehorah 2 weeks from Sunday!
(c) (Rava): Rather, she is concerned that she became Teme'ah
on Sunday - but she only counts days of Tum'ah starting
(d) Question: Ula teaches that (even) part of a fetal sac
always contains (part of) a child - but a Mishnah teaches
1. (Mishnah): A fetal sac (of an animal) that partially
left the womb - it is forbidden to eat;
(e) Answer: From the Mishnah, one might have thought that a
fetal sac does not always contains a child; the Mishnah
decrees when part of the sac left on account of when the
entire sac left - Ula teaches, this is not so.
2. What is a sign (that there was) a child in a woman
is also a sign in an animal.
(f) (Ula): A firstborn boy that became Treifah within 30 days
- we do not redeem him.
(g) (Rami bar Chama): "You will surely redeem" - one might
have thought, even if he became Treifah within 30 days -
"Only" teaches, you do not.
(h) (Ula): A large (i.e. work) animal is acquired through
Meshichah (dragging to one's domain).
(i) Question: But a Mishnah says, it is acquired through
Mesirah (handing over).
(j) Answer: Ula holds as the following Tana.
1. (Beraisa): Chachamim say, both large and small
animals are acquired through Meshichah;
(k) (Ula): Brothers that split an inheritance - we evaluate
the value of the clothes each brother is wearing (as part
of his share), but not what his children are wearing.
2. R. Shimon says, both are acquired through lifting.
(l) (Rav Papa): Sometimes, we don't even evaluate what a
brother is wearing, such as an eldest brother (that
pleads on behalf of his brothers) - they want that he
should be dressed nicely, so his words will be heeded!
(m) (Ula): A watchman that handed over (what was given to
him) to another watchman, he is exempt;
1. Not only a free watchman that gave to a paid
watchman, for he elevated the level of guarding -
but even a paid watchman that gave to a free
watchman, who lowered the level of guarding, is
exempt, for he gave it to a person with
(n) (Rava): A watchman that handed over to another watchman
1. Not only a paid watchman that gave to a free
watchman, who lowered the level of guarding, is
liable, for he lowered the level of guarding - but
even a free watchman that gave to a paid watchman,
who raised the level of guarding, is liable, for the
depositor can say that he doesn't trust the oath of
the second watchman.