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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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Bava Kama 8


(a) Rav Chisda also answered, the case is, the borrower had Idis and sold it.
(b) Support (Beraisa): If he has Beinonis and Ziburis - damages are collected from Beinonis, debts and Kesuvos are collected from Ziburis.
1. Question: This contradicts the other Beraisa!
2. Answer #1: Rather, the first Beraisa is when the borrower had Idis and sold it; the second Beraisa is when he never had Idis.
3. Answer #2: In both Beraisos, he did not (have and) sell Idis;
i. The first Beraisa is when his Beinonis is as world Idis; the second Beraisa is when it is not.
4. Answer #3: In both Beraisos, his Beinonis is not as world Idis;
i. The Tana of the first Beraisa holds that we judge by his land; the other Tana holds that we go by the world standard.
5. Answer #4 (Ravina): The Beraisos argue regarding Ula's law.
i. (Ula): Mid'Oraisa, a creditor collects Ziburis - "You will stand outside, the borrower will give you a pledge (from his house)" - surely, the borrower will give a low quality pledge.
ii. Chachamim enacted that creditors collect Beinonis, so people will not be reluctant to lend.
iii. The first Tana holds as Ula; the second Tana says that no enactment was made.
(a) A debtor sold (Idis, Beinonis and Ziburis) to 1 person, or to 3 people at the same time - they are all in place of the seller (when damagees, creditors and ex-wives come to collect);
1. If they bought at different times - all collect from the last buyer.
i. If after collecting all his land there are still debts, they collect from the previous buyer; when his land is finished, from the previous buyer.
(b) Question: What is the case when land was sold to 1 person?
1. Suggestion: He bought all 3 lands at the same time.
2. Rejection: When he sells to 3 people (on the same day), it is possible that they bought at different times on that day, still we say that they are all in place of the seller;
i. Obviously, when 1 person bought all the proper, he is in place of the seller!
(c) Answer: Rather, the person bought at 3 different times.
(d) Rhetorical question: Why when 3 people buy at different times, all collect from the last? Because the previous buyers can say 'I left you room to collect from (the seller, i.e. when I bought, he still had other land - you must collect that other land before you can take my property)';
1. Question: Also 1 person can say, I first bought the Idis and Beinonis, leaving you room to collect from the Ziburis!.
2. Answer: The case is, the last land he bought was Idis.
3. Question: If so, everyone should collect from Idis!
4. Answer #1: The buyer threatens them - be satisfied with what you are entitled to - if not, I will return the document of sale of Ziburis to the seller, and you will all collect Ziburis!

i. Question: If so, he can also threaten the damagee - why does the damagee get Idis?
ii. Answer: The case is, the damager died; orphans have no MItzvah to pay their father's obligation, so the damagee cannot collect from them;
iii. Even if the orphans receive back the Ziburis, the damagee will still collect from the buyer.
5. Answer #2: Rather, the buyer tells them: this that we do not collect from sold property when the debtor still has land, is an enactment to help the buyer - I do not want the enactment.
i. This is as Rava taught (elsewhere).
ii. (Rava): Anyone who says 'I don't want the enactment Chachamim made to help me' - in a case like this, this claim is accepted.
iii. Question: What case does Rava refer to?
iv. Answer: Rav Huna's law - a woman can tell her husband, do not feed me, I will not work for you. (The enactment that a woman works for her husband, and he feeds her, was to help her.)
(e) Levi bought all 3 lands (Idis was the last), then he sold the Beinonis and Ziburis - clearly, everyone collects from Idis, since they have a lien on it, and he cannot tell them to take Beinonis or Ziburis in its place;
(f) Question: What if he sold only the Idis?
(g) Answer #1 (Abaye): Everyone collects from Idis.
(h) Objection (Rava): The first seller sold all rights he had to the property; if Levi still had all the property, he could tell (the creditors and ex-wives) to collect from Beinonis and Ziburis, even though he bought the Idis last;
1. He can say, 'I don't want the enactment that we do not collect from sold property when the debtor still has land' (for this would entitle them to collect the Idis).
2. Also Reuven sold all rights he had to the property, which includes the right to say that the enactment does not apply (so debts and Kesuvos will be collected from Beinonis and Ziburis.)
(i) (Implied answer #2 - Rava): Everyone collects as their normal law.
(j) (Rava): Reuven sold all his fields to Shimon; Shimon sold 1 field to Levi. Reuven's creditor may choose to collect from Shimon or Levi.
1. This is only if Shimon sold Beinonis - if he sold Idis or Ziburis, Levi can say, I was careful to buy land you can collect from.
2. Also, this is only when Levi bought all the Beinonis - if not, he can say, I left you room to collect from Shimon.
(a) [Version #1 (Abaye): Reuven sold land to Shimon with Achrayus (responsibility to compensate him if it is taken away); Reuven's creditor Levi collected it. Reuven can take Levi to Beis Din (if he says that Levi was not entitled to take it);
1. Levi cannot say, you have no claim against me (only Shimon does), because Shimon will force Reuven to compensate him.]
(b) [Version #2: Even if Reuven sold to Shimon without Achrayus, Reuven can take Levi to Beis Din;
1. Reuven can say, I don't want Shimon to have complaints against me (that I caused him a loss).]
(c) (Abaye): Reuven sold land to Shimon without Achrayus; other people protested, claiming it is theirs.
1. Before Shimon makes a Chazakah, he can retract from the purchase; after making Chazakah, he cannot.
2. Question: Why not?
3. Answer: Reuven can claim, you knew that you were taking a chance.
(d) Question: What is considered a Chazakah (regarding this law)?
(e) Answer: When he walks around the borders.
(f) [Version #1: This only applies if Shimon bought without Achrayus - if he bought with Achrayus, he can retract.]
(g) [Version #2: Even if he bought with Achrayus, Reuven can say, when they legally take it from you, I will return your money.]
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