ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous dafBeitzah 3
BEITZAH 2 and 3 - have been dedicated by Mrs. Rita Grunberger of Queens,
N.Y., in loving memory of her late husband, Yitzchok Yakov ben Eliyahu
Grunberger. Mr Grunberger helped many people quietly in an unassuming manner
and is sorely missed by all who knew him. Yahrzeit: 10 Sivan.
(a) According to Rav Yitzchak, an egg that is laid on Yom-Tov is forbidden
because it is similar to liquid that dripped from grapes, which Chazal
forbade - because one might come to squeeze them for their juice?
The three other Amora'im decline to answer like Rav Nachman, because of the
Kashya that we asked on the previous Amud (why do they not argue by the case
of a chicken, too); they decline to answer like Rabah, because they disagree
with his Chidush of Muktzah d'Oraysa.
(b) An egg that was laid on Yom-Tov is not a Gezeirah li'Gezeirah - because
it was all part of the same Gezeirah, as we explained above.
1. ... Rav Yosef ('Peiros ha'Noshrin') declines to learn like Rav Yitzchak
('Mashkin she'Zavu') - because he considers an egg (which is a *food*) to be
more comparable to fruit that fell from a tree (which is also a *food*),
than to *liquid* that dripped from grapes, which is *not*.
2. ... Rav Yitzchak declines to learn like Rav Yosef - because he considers
an egg to be more comparable to liquid that dripped from fruits, seeing as
both are *contained* inside something else, than to fruit that fell from a
tree, which is open.
(a) The Tana Kama of a Beraisa forbids all liquid that drips from a solid on
Shabbos and Yom-Tov. Rebbi Yehudah agrees with him as long as the liquid is
required as liquid, but one may squeeze it into a solid.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah says, with regard to the two days of Rosh Hashanah, that
if one has ...
1. ... a basket of un'Ma'asered fruit on the first day, he can Ma'aser it on
the first day, conditional to the fact that it is not Yom-Tov, and after
doing the same on the second day, he may eat it (since, either his Ma'aser
was valid on the first day, or it is valid on the second).
(c) We can certainly infer from Rebbi Yehudah's words that the egg is Asur
on the *first* day of Rosh Hashanah - which clashes with what we learned in
a. (that liquid that flows from a solid to combine with a solid is permitted
- because it is 'Uchla de'Efras').
2. ... an egg that was laid on the *first* day - he may eat it on the
(d) Since Rebbi Yochanan asks from Rebbi Yehudah by an egg that was laid on
Yom-Tov to liquid that dripped from fruit, it is clear that, in his opinion,
the egg is forbidden because of liquid that dripped (like Rav Yitzchak).
(a) Rebbi Yochanan reconciles the two statements of Rebbi Yehudah - by
switching the opinions of Rebbi Yehudah (who will now forbid the liquid that
dripped - even if he needed it as a solid) and the Tana Kama, who will now
permit it, as long as he intended it to use it as a solid.
(b) Ravina disagrees with Rebbi Yochanan's answer. According to him - Rebbi
Yehudah (in the second Beraisa) permits the egg even on the *first* day
(because of 'Uchla de'Efras'), and he was suggesting that the Rabbanan
should at least agree with him that the egg ought to be permitted on the
second day, seeing as the two days Rosh Hashanah have *two* Kedushos, to
which they replied that they only have *one* Kedushah, and are therefore
(c) The egg will not be forbidden on the first day because of 'Mashkin
she'Zavu' - because Ravina argues with Rebbi Yochanan in this very point:
according to him, an egg that is laid on Yom-Tov is not Asur because of
liquid that dripped from a fruit, but for one of the other three reasons
that we learned above.
(d) The basis of the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan,
according to Ravina - is whether Rosh Hashanah has the same Din as other
Yamim-Tovim, where the two days have two Kedushos, or not.
Both Rebbi Yochanan and Ravina established the Beraisa (of 'Beitzah
she'Noldah ba'Rishon') by a chicken that was designated to be eaten.
According to Ravina B'rei de'Rav Ula - Rebbi Yehudah is talking about a
chicken that is designated to lay eggs, and the reason that he forbids the
egg on the first day is because he is the one who holds of Muktzah
(a) In yet another Beraisa, the Tana renders an egg that was laid on Shabbos
or Yom-Tov, Muktzah. One might use a raw egg as a bottle-stopper or to
support a bed with its pointed end upwards (when it is virtually
(b) One may however, protect the egg by covering it with an overturned dish
- in spite of Rav Yitzchak, who forbids picking up any vessel to use for
something which is Muktzah. As for Rav Yitzchak, he will establish this
Beraisa, when he initially picked up the dish because he needed the space on
which it was lying.
(a) Even if the Safek egg became mixed up in a thousand eggs - it will
(b) We initially think that 'u'Sefeika Asurah' means - that we are not sure
whether it was laid on Yom-Tov or on a weekday.
(c) But surely according to Rav Yosef and Rav Yitzchak - where the entire
Isur is no more than a Rabbinical decree, this is a Safek de'Rabbanan, and
we have a principle 'Safek de'Rabbanan, le'Kula'. If so, why does the Tana
of the Beraisa forbid the egg even by a Safek? This is not a Kashya on
Rabah, in whose opinion, the egg is Muktzah d'*Oraysa*.
(a) We establish the Seifa (of 'u'Sefeika Asurah') by Safek Tereifah, which
makes it a Safek d'Oraysa. But in that case, we ask, why does the Beraisa go
on to forbid the egg even if it became mixed with a thousand other eggs? Why
should it not become Batel?
(b) This is not a problem according to our initial interpretation of the
Beraisa (that the Tana is referring to a Safek whether it was laid on Yom-
Tov) - because as long as we are speaking of a Safek Yom-Tov, we will apply
the principle that 'Davar she'Yesh Lo Matirin does not become Batel'
(c) We try to explain that the egg is not Batel, because of its importance -
which is the opinion of Rebbi Meir.
(d) This explanation however, will only hold water according to those who
have the text (of the things that are not Batel, according to Rebbi Meir)
'*Kol* she'Darko Limanos' (which refers to anything - including eggs - that
some people make a point of counting in numbers). But those who have the
text 'Es she'Darko Limanos' (meaning only those things that *everyone* sells
by number *exclusively*), this cannot be said of eggs, which are sometimes
sold in unspecified batches.
(a) For K'lai ha'Kerem to become Batel - two hundred of Heter are required.
(b) Nevertheless, Rebbi Meir, in the Mishnah in Orlah, maintains that
bundles of Tilsan (a kind of legume known as fenugreek) of K'lai ha'Kerem
are not Batel in two hundred - because this is a commodity that one tends to
sell in numbers.
(c) According to the Chachamim - everything can become Batel, with the
exception of six things (which we will now list).
(a) According to the Chachamim, the only six 'fruits' that do not become
Batel are nuts from Perech (some say coconuts), pomegranates from Baden,
sealed barrels of wine, young mangold (a type of beet)-shoots, cabbages of
Eretz Yisrael (which used to grow to the size of a tree) and a Greek gourd.
(b) Of these, Orlah does not apply to - young mangold-shoots, cabbages of
Eretz Yisrael (a Greek gourd - Rabeinu Chanan'el. It is unclear why Rashi
omits this case), and the loaves of a Ba'al ha'Bayis.
(a) Rebbi Yochanan learns in Rebbi Meir 'es she'Darko Limenos' - Resh
Lakish, 'Kol she'Darko Limanos'.
(b) Rebbi Yochanan establishes the Tana of the Beraisa above (who forbids an
egg which is a Safek Tereifah that became mixed even with a thousand eggs) -
as being the Tana of Litra Ketzi'os (Rebbi Yehoshua according to Rebbi
Yehudah), whom we shall now proceed to explain.
(a) Terumah requires one hundred of Chulin in order to become Batel.
(b) If someone pressed a litra of figs of Terumah in one of many barrels,
and doesn't know on top of which barrel that litra is, Rebbi Eliezer and
Rebbi Yehoshua argue over when, and even whether, it becomes Batel.
According to Rebbi Meir, Rebbi Eliezer includes the *entire contents* of the
barrels to make up the hundred that renders the one litra Batel (even though
he knows for sure that the litra concerned is *on top* of the barrel). Rebbi
Eliezer's leniency is based on the fact that - the Terumah of fruit (except
for wine and oil) is purely mi'de'Rabbanan. According to Rebbi Yehoshua
however - we will require a hundred tops of barrels (besides the one which
is Asur) for the Isur to become Batel (because, in his opinion, figs that
are not part of the Safek, cannot be included in the figs of Heter that
render Batel the figs of Isur - even by Terumah de'Rabbanan).
(c) In Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, Rebbi Eliezer holds like Rebbi Yehoshua
according to Rebbi Meir. Rebbi Yehoshua says that - even if there were three
hundred tops of barrels, the figs would not become Batel - since the tops of
the barrels are normally counted, and whatever is counted (a Davar
she'ba'Minyan) does not become Batel.
(d) Rebbi Yehoshua will agree that the litra of pressed figs will become
Batel - if the Terumah figs that he pressed did not cover the entire mouth
of the barrel, only part of the area, and he does not know which part,
because then, it is not a Davar she'ba'Minyan.