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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 176


(a) Rabah bar Nasan asked Rebbi Yochanan regarding 'Hotzi Alav K'sav Yado ...' in our Mishnah 'Huchzak K'sav Yado be'Beis-Din Mahu?'
What is the case?

(b) Why might the creditor be permitted to claim Meshubadim any more than the case in our Mishnah?

(c) In that case, why did Rebbi Yochanan reply in the negative?

(a) The Beraisa cites three cases of a Pasul Get: 1. One which the husband wrote himself, but which is not signed by witnesses; 2. where there are witnesses, but no date.
What is the third?

(b) In the event that the woman uses one of these Gitin to get married, is the child that is subsequently born, Kasher?

(c) What does Rebbi Elazar hold in a case where witnesses did not sign in the Sh'tar, but they did witness its handing over to the woman?

(d) And what does he mean when he adds 've'Govin mi'Nechasim Meshubadim'?

(a) What Kashya does Rami bar Chama ask from this Beraisa on Rebbi Yochanan?

(b) What do we mean when we answer 'Sha'ani Hasam de've'Sha'as Kesivah Hu de'Shibed Nafsho'? What is the difference between the two cases?

(a) In connection with our Mishnah, Rav stated that if an Areiv signed before the signatures on a Sh'tar, the creditor may claim from Meshubadim, but not if they signed after the signatures.
What did he say on other occasions which seemed to clash with this?

(b) How do we establish Rav's second ruling, to reconcile it with the first?
In which case will the creditor not be permitted to claim from Meshubadim, even if the Areiv signed his name before the witnesses?

(c) Rebbi Yochanan disagrees with Rav.
What does *he* say?

(a) What does the Beraisa rule in a case where the witnesses signed after 'She'ilas Shalom' in a Get?

(b) How does Rebbi Avahu in the name of Rebbi Yochanan qualify the Beraisa?

What distinction does he draw between 'She'ilu' and 'u'She'ilu'?

(a) What problem does Rava now have with Rebbi Yochanan's previous statement?

(b) How do we therefore amend Rebbi Yochanan's earlier statement in light of his second one?

(c) In that case, Rebbi Yochanan holds like Rava.
Why did he then argue with him?

(a) Rebbi Yishmael in our Mishnah praised ben Nannes (who says that 'Areiv ha'Yotzei Achar Chitum Sh'taros, Eino Govah ... mi'Nechasim B'nei Chorin'. Does this mean that the Halachah is like ben Nannes?

(b) We ask whether Rebbi Yishmael also argues with ben Nannes in the case of his Mashal (of Reuven who agrees to pay Levi's debt if Shimon stops strangling him).
What did Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan say about this?

(c) Like whom is the Halachah?

(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav requires a Kinyan in the case of Chanuk.
What can we extrapolate from there?

(b) Rav Nachman however, disagrees. According to him, a regular Areiv does require a Kinyan.
Which kind of Areiv does not?

(c) What is the reason for this?

Answers to questions


9) What is the final ruling with regard to an Areiv ...

  1. ... at the time when the loan takes place?
  2. ... after the loan has taken place? Will it make any difference if he signed his name in the Sh'tar?
  3. ... an Areiv appointed by Beis-Din (even after the loan has taken place)?
***** Hadran Alach 'Get Pashut' u'Selika Lah Maseches Bava Basra *****

Answers to questions

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