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Bava Basra 128

BAVA BASRA 126-128 - have been generously dedicated by Dick and Beverly Horowitz of Los Angeles, California. May they be blessed with a life of joy and much Nachas from their children and grandchildren.


(a) Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef (bar Chama) that if Reuven accuses Shimon of stealing his Eved, and Shimon counters that he actually sold him to him, the latter is believed.
How will we reconcile this with the ruling in Chezkas ha'Batim 'ha'Godros Ein Lahem Chazakah' (in which case, the Eved ought to revert to Reuven?

(b) He also ruled that if Shimon were to have responded by offering Reuven the right to swear, there is nothing he could then do to stop him from doing so.
What is particularly unusual about this case, besides the fact that one doesn't normally swear on Avadim under any circumstances?

(c) What is the reason for Rebbi Aba's ruling?

(a) Rebbi Meir rules that if Reuven offers to accept the arbitrary decision of his own father, of Shimon's father or three cowhands, in his dispute with Shimon, he can retract his offer.
Why does the Tana specifically refer to cowhands, and not to shepherds? Why advantage does either father have in this regard over shepherds?

(b) What do the Chachamim say?

(c) Having learned the Mishnah of 'Ne'eman Alai Aba ... ', why did Rebbi Aba find it necessary to repeat the ruling in the case of 'Avdi Ganavta'?

(a) Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef 'Halachah Govin min ha'Avadim'.
What did Rav Nachman say?

(b) On what grounds does Rav Nachman ignore the Pasuk in Behar "ve'Hisnachaltem Osam li'Veneichem ... ", comparing Avadim to Karka?

(c) What makes this ruling of Rebbi Aba unique (of all the rulings that Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef)?

(a) He also sent him 'Shelishi be'Sheini Kasher'.
What did he mean by that? What is the Din by a Sheini be'Sheini?

(b) Rava adds 'Af be'Rishon' whereas 'Mar bar Rav Ashi Achshar be'Aba de'Aba'.
What is the difference between Rava and Mar bar Rav Ashi?

(c) Why do we not rule like Mar bar Rav Ashi?

(a) What ruling did Rebbi Aba send to Rav Yosef regarding a witness who became blind?

(b) What is he supposed to be testifying? How is it possible to steal land?

(c) On what grounds then, does ...

  1. ... Shmuel validate such a witness?
  2. ... Rav Sheishes validate him even to testify on a garment (which even Shmuel invalidates)?
  3. ... Rav Papa validate his testimony even on a lump of silver (which even Rav Sheishes invalidates)?
(a) What does the Tana of a Beraisa rule with regard to Reuven who knew testimony about Shimon ...
  1. ... and then became his son-in-law, a deaf-mute or went crazy?
  2. ... before becoming his son-in-law, a deaf-mute or went crazy, but now wants to testify after his daughter died, or after he recovered?
(b) The Tana concludes with 'Zeh ha'Kelal'.
What does 'Zeh ha'Kelal' incorporate?

(c) We cite this Beraisa to categorically prove Rebbi Aba right.
How do we know that the Tana invalidates all the above cases that Shmuel, Rav Sheishes and Rav Papa validate (even Karka)?

Answers to questions



(a) Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef 'ha'Omer al Tinok Bein ha'Banim, Ne'eman'. What did Rebbi Yochanan say?

(b) How does Abaye initially interpret their Machlokes? Which Machlokes Tana'im does it echo?

(c) What objection does Rava raise to Abaye's interpretation?

(d) So Rava concludes that they establish their case like the case over which Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan argue, and they argue over like whom the Halachah is.
Which Machlokes are we referring to?

(a) What will be the Din if one of the brothers is Muchzak as the Bechor and the father says nothing.
Does he receive a double portion?

(b) How do we know this?

(a) Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef 'ha'Omer Titol Ishti ke'Echad min ha'Banim, Ne'eman'.
Assuming that he is speaking about her receiving that amount ...
  1. ... instead of her Kesuvah, by what right can he force her to accept that?
  2. ... in addition to her Kesuvah, did he also make a Kinyan?
(b) Rava confines Rebbi Aba's ruling to property that he owns at the time, but does not incorporate property that he obtained later.
Would it be correct to say that Rava does not hold like Rebbi Meir, who holds 'Adam Makneh Davar she'Lo Ba le'Olam'?

(c) What does Rava mean when he concludes 'u've'Vanim ha'Ba'im le'Achar mi'Ka'an', assuming that between the time of his statement and the distribution after his death ...

  1. ... more children are born?
  2. ... some of the existing children have died?
(d) What is the reason for this dual ruling?
(a) Rebbi Aba sent to Rav Yosef that in a case where Reuven produces a Sh'tar-Chov against Shimon, who claims that he has paid half, but the witnesses testify that he paid in full, Shimon must nevertheless pay half and swear on the rest.
Why is that?

(b) Then why does he conclude that Reuven may only claim from B'nei Chorin?
Why can he not claim Meshubadim from the Lekuchos, too?

(c) In addition, the Lekuchos can counter that the creditor and the debtor entered into a Kenunyah.
What is a 'Kenunyah'?

(a) In a Beraisa in Bava Metzi'a, in a case where Reuven produces a Sh'tar-Chov on Shimon, which states 'Sela'im' or 'Dinrim', and claims from him five, whereas Shimon admits to three, Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar obligates the latter to pay three and swear on the rest.
What does Rebbi Akiva say?

(b) On what grounds do we establish Rebbi Aba (in the current case) even like Rebbi Akiva? Why will Rebbi Akiva not consider this case too (where he could have agreed with the witnesses), to be 'Meishiv Aveidah', and exempt him from a Shevu'ah?

(c) What objection did Mar bar Rav Ashi raise to Rebbi Aba's ruling? How did he view this case in light of the Machlokes Tana'im in Bava Metzi'a?

(d) How do we counter Mar bar Ashi's objection?

(a) Mar Zutra in the name of Rav Shimi bar Ashi rules that in all of the above cases, the Halachah is like Rebbi Aba. On what grounds did Ravina query this from Rebbi Aba's dispute with Rav Nachman, where he ruled 'Govin min ha'Avadim'?

(b) What did Rav Ashi reply?

(c) In that case, we have a problem why Mar Zutra found it necessary to rule like Rebbi Aba.
Why would he not need to preclude from ...

  1. ... Rava, in the case of Shelishi be'Sheini (where Rava adds 'Af be'Rishon')?
  2. ... Mar bar Rav Ashi there, who adds 'Af Aba de'Aba'?
  3. ... Shmuel, Rav Sheishes and Rav Papa, in the case of 'Hayah Yode'a be'Eidus ad she'Lo Nistama ... ', who argue in the cases of Karka, a garment and silver respectively?
(d) If, as we just suggested, Rebbi Aba agrees with Rava, then why did he say 'Shelishi be'Sheini', and not 'be'Rishon' (like Rava)?
13) Whose two opinions *does* Mar Zutra's ruling like Rebbi Aba come to preclude?

Answers to questions

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