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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 97

BAVA BASRA 97 - sponsored by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld to celebrate the marriage of their nephew, Shlomo Eitan Turkel, to Ayeleth Gershuni. May they be Boneh a Bayis Ne'eman b'Yisrael!


(a) According to the Tana Kama in the Mishnah in Ma'asros, if one adds three measures of water to dregs of wine and three measures emerge, one is Patur from Ma'asros.
What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(b) What do we initially extrapolate from the Beraisa with regard to a case where three and a half measures emerged?

(c) We ask from here (where the Tana'im appear to agree by 'Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso') on what we just learned (that the Rabbanan do not consider 'Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso' wine with regard to the B'rachah).
Why can we not reply that the Rabbanan only consider it wine with regard to Ma'aser (like we explained earlier in the opinion of Rebbi Yehudah by 'K'dei Midaso')?

(d) Then how will we resolve the apparent discrepancy? Why did Rebbi choose to present the Machlokes specifically by K'dei Midaso?

(a) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak asked Rav Chiya bar Avin what one would consider dregs which have the taste of wine.
What exactly was he asking him?

(b) Why did he not then cite the Beraisa of Acherim?

(c) What did Rav Chiya bar Avin reply?

(a) Up to how many times does the Tana Kama of another Beraisa forbid dregs of ...
  1. ... Terumah wine to which one added water, to be drunk by a Zar (a non-Kohen)?
  2. ... Ma'aser Sheini wine to which one added water, to be eaten outside Yerushalayim?
  3. ... Hekdesh wine to which one added water, to be drunk by anybody?
(b) What does Rebbi Meir say with regard to the dregs of ...
  1. ... Terumah?
  2. ... Ma'aser Sheini?
  3. ... Hekdesh?
(c) What case are the Tana'im referring to? How much water was added to the dregs? How much emerged?

(d) What is the source for all these Halachos? What would be the Torah law?

(a) What does another Beraisa say about dregs ...
  1. ... of Hekdesh?
  2. ... of Ma'aser?
(b) To reconcile the two Beraisos, how do we answer the discrepancy between ...
  1. ... Hekdesh and Hekdesh? Which dregs of Hekdesh are always forbidden and which sometimes have a Heter?
  2. ... Ma'aser and Ma'aser? Which dregs of Ma'aser are always permitted and which are not?
(a) What seems strange about the statement of Rebbi Yochanan quoting Rebbi Shimon ben Yehotzadak that all the above rulings extend to the Din of Hechsher?

(b) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Eikev "Tishteh Chamer"?

(c) We answer the Kashya by establishing Rebbi Yochanan when the water that one added (to the dregs of Terumah, Ma'aser or Hekdesh) was rain-water.
How does this answer the Kashya?

(d) Why is this answer insufficient?

(a) Rav Papa finally establishes the case when a cow drank each batch of water as it emerged (and fell from the cow's mouth on to food - see Me'iri).
How does this answer the Kashya?

(b) Why could we not have established it when each batch of water that emerged spilled immediately?

(a) What sort of wine is Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah referring to when he declares that wine that is not fit to go on the Mizbe'ach may not be used for Kidush?

(b) What is the reason for the prohibition?

(c) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Pinchas (in connection with the Nesachim) "Hasech Nesech Sheichar la'Hashem"?

(d) Does this then mean that wine straight from the vat may not be used for Kidush?

Answers to questions



(a) What does Rava say about squeezing a bunch of grapes and using the juice for Kidush?

(b) Does Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah then perhaps come to preclude from Kidush ...

  1. ... wine from the top or the bottom of the barrel (which should also not be used for Nesachim)?
  2. ... black or (very) white wine, very sweet, weak wine, wine from the cellar (which contains barrels of Kos'sos) and raisin wine, all of which should not be used for Nesachim?
(c) What does the Beraisa say with regard to Nesachim about Yayin Koses (inferior-quality wine that is sold in the stores that will never mature, but will turn into vinegar), wine that has been diluted or left uncovered, Temed and wine that smells foul but tastes like wine?

(d) How do we reconcile with the previous Beraisa, which declared Yayin shel Martef eligible Bedi'eved, despite the fact that some of the barrels are Kos'sos?

(a) So why can Rav Zutra bar Tuvya not be coming to disqualify (from Kidush) ...
  1. ... Yayin Koses, assuming that he holds a. like Rebbi Yochanan? b. like Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi?
  2. ... diluted wine?
  3. ... uncovered wine?
(b) And why can he not be coming to disqualify 'dregs', assuming that three measures were added and ...
  1. ... four emerged?
  2. ... three emerged?
  3. ... three and a half emerged?
(c) What does Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina say regarding the Rabbanan of Rebbi Eliezer's opinion on diluted wine?
(a) Then what does Rav Zutra bar Tuvya come disqualify?

(b) Alternatively, he might be coming to disqualify uncovered wine, like Rebbi Nechemyah.
What does Rebbi Nechemyah say?

(c) Then why is it Pasul?

(a) Rav Kahana the father-in-law of Rav Mesharshaya asked Rava about using very white wine for Nesachim.
Why did he not know this from 'Borek', which the Beraisa that we quoted above, permitted Bedi'eved?

(b) Rava replied with a Pasuk in Mishlei "Al Teire Yayin Ki Yis'adam".
What was Rava's answer? What does the Pasuk mean?

(a) What does the Beraisa mean when it writes (with reference to our Mishnah 'Kankanim be'Sharon, Mekabel Alav Eser Pit'sos le'Me'ah') 'Pit'sos Na'os u'Megufaros'?

(b) Rabeinu Chananel has a text that reads 'Tana, Yeser al Kein be'Chulan Machzir es ha'Sha'ar ve'Notel es ha'Damim Mimenu'.
What does this mean?

(c) Does this clash with Rav Huna, who learned earlier that once the seller pays for the excess of a Rova, he has to pay him for the Rova as well?

Answers to questions

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