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Bava Basra 86

BAVA BASRA 86 - dedicated by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld in honor of the engagement of Avi Turkel to Estie Isseroff. May they build a Bayis Ne'eman b'Yisrael and be a constant source of Nachas to both of their families.


(a) We learned in a Beraisa that if the purchaser pulled his ass-drivers or laborers into his domain laden with the goods that he intends to purchase, he does not acquire the goods, and both parties are entitled to retract.
Will it make any difference if he had already fixed the price with the seller?

(b) On what grounds is the sale not valid?

(c) Will the sale be valid if, before fixing the price, he then measured the goods and placed them on the ground or into his (the purchaser's) receptacles?

(a) What will be the Din if either the purchaser or the seller unloaded the vessels that contained the goods and placed them in his domain? Under which condition will the sale be valid?

(b) Will it make any difference whether they fixed the price before the goods were unloaded or afterwards?

(c) What is now the Kashya on Rav and Shmuel (who hold that the receptacles of the seller cannot acquire for the purchaser in the purchaser's domain)?

(d) Some commentaries explain that the purchaser acquires the goods (not because the purchaser's domain acquires the goods [Kinyan Chatzer] once the price has been fixed as we explained, but) because the purchaser pulled the goods into his domain, after he fixed the price with the seller.
What is wrong with this interpretation of 'Pirkan ve'Hichnisan le'Toch Beiso'?

(a) Why did Rava object, when, to answer the Kashya, Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak interpreted 'Pirkan' to mean that the seller unloaded his sacks before emptying them on to the purchaser's domain?

(b) How does Mar bar Rav Ashi answer the Kashya when he establishes the Beraisa by bundles of garlic?

(c) How did Ravina explain to Huna B'rei de'Mar Zutra the need to fix the price, despite the fact that the seller had already unloaded them and placed them on the ground for the purchaser to acquire?

(d) Ravina asked Rav Ashi about an apparent discrepancy between Rav and Shmuel's statement, and another statement of theirs 'Keilav shel Adam Koneh Lo be'Chol Makom' (which can only come to include even the domain of the seller).
What did Rav Ashi reply?

(a) According to the Mishnah in Kidushin, how does one acquire ...
  1. ... Karka?
  2. ... Metaltelin?
(b) How does Rav Chisda (according to the text in Sura, and Rav Kahana or Rava, as recorded in Pumbedisa) qualify the latter ruling? In which case will one not acquire the Metaltelin, according to Rav Chisda?
(a) If Reuven picks up Shimon's purse on Shabbos and walks out into the street with it, he is liable to pay.
What does the Tana of the Beraisa say in a case where he dragged the purse into the street? Why the difference?

(b) How can one acquire with Meshichah in the Reshus ha'Rabim?

(c) What did Rav Ada bar Ahavah ask Abaye on Rav Chisda from this Beraisa?

(a) On what grounds did Rav Ada bar Ahavah object when Abaye replied that the Tana speaks when he is pulling the purse by a string?

(b) So how did Abaye finally establish the Beraisa?

(c) How does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak explain the Beraisa that we discussed earlier, which specifically states 'bi'Reshus Mocher Lo Kanah ad she'Yagbihenah O ad she'Yotzi'enah me'Reshuso', implying that an object that can be acquired with Hagbahah, can also be acquired with Meshichah?

Answers to questions



(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'ha'Mocher Peiros la'Chavero, Mashach ve'Lo Madad, Kani'.
What does the Tana say there about someone who buys flax?

(b) How do we initially explain the difference between the Reisha and the Seifa?

(c) Why might even Rav, who validates a minimal Meshichah by a ship, concede in this case that flax will need to be moved its full length in order to acquire it?

(a) How do we explain the difference between the Reisha and the Seifa, after establishing the Reisha by large (heavy) bundles, in order to conform with Rav Chisda? Why is this not possible by flax?

(b) How does Rabeinu Chananel explain 'Sha'ani Pishtan, de'Mishtamit'? What makes the flax slip?

(c) According to the Mishnah in Kidushin, a large animal is acquired through Mesirah, and a small one, in the opinion of Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar, through Hagbahah.
What do the Chachamim say about acquiring a small animal?

(d) How will Rav Chisda explain the Chachamim's opinion, seeing as it is possible to acquire a small animal with Hagbahah?

(e) How does Rabeinu Chananel interpret 'Sha'ani Beheimah de'Sarcha'?

(a) Rav and Shmuel both rule that if Reuven sells Shimon 'a Kur of wheat for thirty Sela', Shimon can retract right up to the time that the last grain has been measured.
Will this apply even if the wheat is being measured in Shimon's receptacles and in his field, and he already made a Meshichah on twenty-nine Sa'ah?

(b) Then how will we establish our Mishnah 'Mashach ve'Lo Madad, Kanah'?

(c) Under which circumstances do Rav and Shmuel specifically state that Shimon cannot retract? What would Reuven have had to add to his contract to achieve that?

(a) We learned earlier in the Beraisa 'Im Haysah ha'Midah shel Achad Meihen, Rishon Rishon Kanah'.
How do we know that the Tana is speaking even if the current measure is not full?

(b) What is then the Kashya on Rav and Shmuel? Why is there even more reason to acquire in the first of their two cases than there is in the case in the Beraisa?

(a) We answer the Kashya by quoting Rav Kahana.
What did Rav Kahana say about the Hin measure in the Beis Hamikdash?

(b) What did the markings signify?

(c) If the Beraisa too, speaks when the Kur measure had thirty markings on it, determining the sale of each Sa'ah in the Seifa (where the measure belongs to the seller or the purchaser), then why does the purchaser not acquire the number of Sa'in indicated by the markings in the Reisha (when the measure is a borrowed one) too?

(a) Why can the Kashya on Rav and Shmuel not be from the Seifa de'Seifa 'bi'Reshus Loke'ach Keivan she'Kibel Alav Mocher, Kanah Loke'ach', as some commentaries suggest?

(b) Why would the answer not fit either?

Answers to questions

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