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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 84

BAVA BASRA 82-85 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.


(a) How do we refer to a case where Reuven sells Shimon something worth ...
  1. ... five Dinrim for six?
  2. ... six Dinrim for five?
(b) What is the significance of these two terms? What is the difference between them?

(c) The Seifa of our Mishnah rules that when Reuven sold Shimon an article worth six Dinrim for five, Reuven is permitted to retract.
What would be the Din if he sold him one worth seven, for six?

(d) Is this opinion unanimous?

(a) On what grounds does Rav Huna rule that in a case where Reuven sells Shimon something worth five Dinrim for six, and then the price rises to eight, it is Shimon who has the right to retract (and not Reuven)?

(b) Would there be no Chidush assuming that the price rose to seven Dinrim (instead of eight)?

(c) What does 've'Tana Tuna' mean?

(d) What is Rav Huna's proof from our Mishnah 'Yafos ve'Nimtze'u Ra'os, Loke'ach Yachol Lachzor Bo ve'Lo Mocher? What makes him think that the Tana is talking in a case when the price of wheat subsequently went up?

(a) What does Rav Huna say in a case where he sells him something worth six Dinrim for five, and the price drops to three?

(b) And what is his proof from the Seifa of our Mishnah?

(c) Seeing as both rulings of Rav Chisda seem to be contained in our Mishnah, why do we need Rav Chisda to echo them?

(d) What Chidush would our Mishnah then be teaching us ...

  1. ... in the Reisha (where the wheat turned out to be inferior [according to our text 'Ha Asa le'Ashme'inan de'Loke'ach Yachol Lachzor Bo']. See M'lo ha'Ro'im)?
  2. ... in the Seifa (where the wheat turned out to be superior)?
(a) How does Rav Papa extrapolate from our Mishnah 'Shechamtis ve'Nimtzas Levanah' that the sun is red?

(b) How would we have otherwise translated 'Shechamtis'?

(c) How do we prove that the sun is really red?

(d) Then why does it appear white to us during the day?

(a) We cite a Beraisa in connection with Tzara'as "u'Mar'eihu Amok min ha'Or", 'ke'Mar'eh Chamah min ha'Tzeil'.
What does the Tana mean?

(b) How will we reconcile Rav Papa with the Beraisa, bearing in mind that Tzara'as is white and not red?

(c) If, as we believed, when we asked on Rav Papa from the Beraisa, the sun is really white, how would we explain the fact that it is red in the mornings and evenings?

(d) What does 'Ika de'Amri Ipcha' mean?

Answers to questions



(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'Yayin ve'Nimtza Chometz, Sheneihen Yecholin Lachzor Bahen'.
On what grounds do we attempt to establish the author as Rebbi? What does Rebbi say in a Beraisa about 'Yayin ve'Nimtza Chometz' (regarding Ma'asros)?

(b) What does the Tana Kama say?

(c) To establish our Mishnah even like the Rabbanan, we cite Rebbi Ila'a. What does Rebbi Ila'a learn from the Pasuk in Korach "ve'Lo Sis'u Alav Chet ba'Harimchem es Chelbo Mimenu"?

(d) What then, makes wine and vinegar two species in the realm of buying and selling? What makes it different than inferior and superior wheat?

(a) Our Mishnah validates a Meshichah on 'fruit' (which incorporated grain) even though it has not yet been measured.
Why is that?

(b) Where must the Meshichah take place?

(c) For the Kinyan to be effective, Pisuk Damim must already have taken place.
What is 'Pisuk Damim'?

(d) Why is prior Pisuk Damim crucial to the Kinyan?

(a) What does the Tana advise a smart purchaser to do, to acquire fruit that is lying in the owner's domain if, for whatever reason, Meshichah is hard for him to do?

(b) What does the Tana mean when he requires the purchaser of flax to 'move it from one place to another? Why will Meshichah not suffice?

(c) And what does he then say about acquiring flax that is still attached to the ground?

(d) 'Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan Madad ve'Hini'ach al-Gabei Simta, Kanah'. What exactly is a 'Simta'?

(e) What is the reason for this ruling?

(a) What did Rebbi Asi retort when Rebbi Zeira suggested that maybe Rebbi Yochanan was referring specifically to when the seller poured the fruit into a receptacle belonging to the purchaser?

(b) According to Rebbi Zeira's contention, would the purchaser acquire the fruit if the seller poured it ...

  1. ... on to the floor of the Simta?
  2. ... into a receptacle belonging to the purchaser that was lying in the Reshus ha'Rabim?
(c) How do we try to prove from the statement of Rebbi Yanai Amar Rebbi 'Chatzar ha'Shutfin Konin Zeh mi'Zeh', that Rebbi Zeira must have conceded that Rebbi Asi was right?

(d) What has this ruling to do with the opinion of Rebbi Yochanan currently under discussion?

(a) We refute the proof from Rebbi Yanai, by establishing his statement when the owner poured it into the purchaser's receptacle. And we prove this from a statement of Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan.
What did he say about a seller who measured out fruit for the purchaser and placed it in a Simta?
What does 'in a Simta' mean?

(b) How does this tally with Rebbi Asi's opinion?

(c) We ask another Kashya on Rebbi Asi from our Mishnah 'Madad ve'Lo Mashach, which presumes that this took place in a Simta. How do we know that the Tana is not speaking when the owner poured the fruit into the purchaser's receptacle?

(d) How will Rebbi Asi reconcile the Mishnah with his own opinion?

(a) What could we can then extrapolate from the Reisha 'Mashach ve'Lo Madad, Kanah'?

(b) We have a problem with this however, from a series of rulings by Abaye and Rava cited earlier in the Perek.
According to them ...

  1. ... what does one acquire with Mesirah?
  2. ... what is the major distinction between Mesirah and Meshichah (location-wise)?
(c) In that case, how will Abaye and Rava establish ...
  1. ... the Reisha of our Mishnah?
  2. ... the Seifa 'Im Hayah Pike'ach, Socher es Mekomo'? From whom is he supposed to rent it?
Answers to questions

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