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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 29

BAVA BASRA 29 & 30 - anonymously dedicated by an Ohev Torah and Marbitz Torah in Ramat Beit Shemesh, Israel.


(a) According to Rava, the Rabbanan's source for the Chazakah of Karka is the S'vara of Mechilah.
How does this work?

(b) On what grounds does Abaye reject ...

  1. ... Rava's suggestion?
  2. ... Rava's second suggestion that for the first two years Reuven does not object to Shimon's working on his field (though he is not Mochel), whereas in the third, he does?
(c) Why is that not indeed the case? Why does even the property of Bei bar Meryon require three years?
(a) What is Rava's final S'vara to explain the three-year Chazakah of Karka according to the Rabbanan?

(b) Abaye asked Rava why, in that case, a Mecha'ah not in the presence of the Machzik, should be effective.
What did Rava reply? Why can the latter not argue that had the Mecha'ah been made in his presence, he would have made sure not to lose his Sh'tar?

(a) How might we have interpreted 'Shalosh Shanim mi'Yom el Yom'? What does Rav Huna therefore teach us?

(b) According to Rav Chama, Rav Huna concedes that the Chazakah takes effect even if the three years are not consecutive 'be'Asra de'Movri Bagi'.
What does he mean by that?

(c) How do we establish the case to answer the Kashya that this would then be obvious?

(d) What is the initial basis for this? Why can Reuven not counter that Shimon ought to have worked the field for three consecutive years (since not everyone uses the rotation system anyway)?

(e) And why would the Chazakah nevertheless take effect, even if the other residents of that particular valley did not employ the rotation system at the time when Shimon chose to do so?

(a) If, as Rav Huna asserts, the Chazakah must be unbroken, what problem does this create with the Chazakah on a house?

(b) How does Abaye answer this Kashya? How will Shimon be able to counter Reuven's claims that he did not live in the house some nights?

(c) Rava establishes the Chazakah on houses when Levi and Yehudah testify that they had hired the house from Shimon and had lived there for three years, day and night.
What problem does Rav Yeimar have with that?

(d) How does Rav Ashi deal with Rav Yeimar's problem?

(a) What does Mar Zutra say about a case where Reuven demands that Shimon brings two witnesses to prove that he lived in the house day and night?

(b) What is the point of ...

  1. ... Mar Zutra's statement? Is he not merely repeating what Rav Ashi just said?
  2. ... Reuven's demand? What is he coming to justify?
(c) In which case will Rav Huna agree that we force Shimon to prove every day and night that he stayed in the house, even though Reuven did not demand it personally?

(d) On the other hand, he will concede that even if Reuven does ask for proof that Shimon lived in the house day and night, we ignore his demand, if it concerns the stores of Mechuza.
Why is that?

Answers to questions



(a) What agreement did Rami bar Chama and his brother Mar Ukva enter into with regard to the Shifchah that they purchased jointly?

(b) What did Rava rule when a third party claimed ownership of the Shifchah, despite their having already owned her for three years?

(c) What did Rava mean when he added that if they wrote 'It'da' (or 'Itra') it had a Kol?

(d) The Chazakah would then take effect after three years.
What precedent do we have on which this ruling is based? What is the S'vara behind this ruling?

(a) What does Rava say about Shimon who makes a Chazakah on all but a Beis Rova of Reuven's field?

(b) How does Rav Huna B'rei de'Rav Yehoshua qualify that Beis Rova?

(c) What does Rav Bibi bar Abaye say about making a Chazakah on a piece of rock that is not arable?

(d) How does he use this ruling to refute Rav Huna B'rei de'Rav Yehoshua's qualification?

(a) What did Reuven mean when, in a case where Shimon proved that he had made the necessary Chazakah on his house, he countered 'Ana bi'Shechuni Gava'i Hava'i'?

(b) On what grounds did Rava object to Rav Nachman's ruling ordering Shimon to prove that he had lived alone in the house during those three years?

(c) This Machlokes must be speaking when there were independent witnesses to the effect that the house had previously belonged to Reuven.
Why is that?
What would Rav Nachman have said if there were not?

(d) Why would we have then believed Shimon when he claimed that he bought the house from Reuven?

Answers to questions

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