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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 23

BAVA BASRA 20-25 - sponsored by Harav Ari Bergmann of Lawrence, N.Y., out of love for the Torah and for those who study it.


(a) What happened as a result of the bloodletters practicing their trade underneath Rav Yosef's small date-palms?

(b) What did Rav Yosef mean when he told them 'Afiku Li Kurkur me'Hacha'?
Why did he refer to the ravens as 'Kurkur'?

(c) What did Rav Yosef reply when Abaye queried him on the grounds that ...

  1. ... this was no more than G'rama?
  2. ... that the blood-letters had a Chazakah?
(d) And what did Rav Yosef finally answer when Abaye queried him on the grounds that Rav Mari confined the principle of 'Ein Chazakah le'Nizakin' to the damage caused by smoke and Rav Z'vid to the smell of a 'Beis ha'Kisei', neither of which are tolerable in the long term?
(a) Why may one not place a dovecote within fifty Amos of the town?

(b) And why is one obligated to leave a space of at least fifty Amos in every direction around one's dovecote?

(c) Rebbi Yehudah requires a distance of at least four Kurim (which is much further than fifty Amos).
Why is that?

(d) What will Rebbi Yehudah say in a case where someone purchases an area of only a quarter of a Kav containing a dovecote?

(a) The Beraisa forbids spreading nets to catch doves unless it is thirty Ris from inhabited territory.
How many Mil do thirty Ris comprise?

(b) How does Abaye reconcile this with our Mishnah, which requires a distance of only fifty Amah?

(c) Another Beraisa forbids spreading nets even within a hundred Mil of inhabited territory. Rav Yosef establishes this by an area of vineyards; Rabah establishes it by an area of dovecotes.
How do these explanations answer the Kashya?

(d) There are three explanations why it is not intrinsically forbidden to spread he nets on account of the dovecotes themselves: 1. because the dovecotes all belong to the person spreading the nets; 2. because they belong to Nochrim.
What is the third reason?

(a) What does Rav Papa or Rav Z'vid extrapolate from our Mishnah which concludes 've'Im Lakchu Afilu Beis Rova, Harei Hu be'Chezkaso'?

(b) What do we ask on Rav Papa's statement 'To'anin le'Yoresh'?

(c) What do we answer?

(d) We ask further that we also have a Mishnah in Chezkas ha'Batim that teaches 'Lakach Chatzer u'Vah Zizin u'Gezuztera'os, Harei Hu be'Chezkasah', and we answer that we need them both.
Why could we not have learned 'To'anin le'Loke'ach' ...

  1. ... in our case from the Mishnah in Chezkas ha'Batim?
  2. ... in the case in Chezkas ha'Batim from our Mishnah?
5) How can our Tana rule 'Harei Hu be'Chezkasah', in light of Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah's principle 'Ein Chazakah le'Nizakin'?

Answers to questions



(a) If a young dove that one finds within fifty Amos of a dovecote belongs to the owner of the dovecote, to whom does one that is found outside fifty Amos belong?

(b) And to whom does the bird belong if it is found between two dovecotes if it is ...

  1. ... nearer to one than to the other?
  2. ... equidistant to both?
(c) What do we learn from the Pasuk ...
  1. ... in Mishpatim "Acharei Rabim Lehatos"?
  2. ... in Shoftim "ve'Hayah ha'Ir ha'Kerovah el he'Chalal"?
(d) In a case where Rov clashes with Karov, to which does Rebbi Chanina give precedence?
(a) Rebbi Zeira asks on Rebbi Chanina from the Pasuk "ve'Hayah ha'Ir ha'Kerovah el he'Chalal", implying that we go after Karov even though there are larger towns than it in the area.
What do we reply?

(b) Then why do we not go after Ruba de'Alma (the Rov of the world at large) and give it to the finder?

(c) How will Rebbi Chanina establish our Mishnah 'Nipul ha'Nimtza be'Toch Chamishim Amah ... '?

(d) What is then the problem with the Seifa 'Chutz me'Chamishim Amah, Harei Hu shel Motza'ah'?

(a) We solve the problem by establishing our Mishnah by 'Mad'dah'.
What does this mean? What does Rav Ukva bar Chama say about Mad'dah?

(b) How does this solve our problem? Why, outside fifty Amos, does the bird then belong to the finder?

(c) What She'eilah did Rebbi Yirmiyah ask concerning the two feet of the dove?

(d) How did his contemporaries react to the She'eilah?

(a) How will Rebbi Chanina explain the continuation of our Mishnah 'Nimtza Bein Sh'nei Shovchos, Karov la'Zeh, she'Lo, ve'Karov la'Zeh, she'Lo'? Why do we not go after the larger of the two, which has a Rov?

(b) We then ask why we do not follow 'Ruba de'Alma'.
What does the question assume? Where must the bird have been found?

(c) We answer by establishing the Mishnah by a path in the vineyard. How does that explain ...

  1. ... why it was found beyond fifty Amos from its dovecote?
  2. ... why it could not have come from 'Ruba de'Alma'?
Answers to questions

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