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Bava Basra 3

BAVA BASRA 3-5 - sponsored by Harav Ari Bergmann of Lawrence, N.Y., out of love for Torah and those who study it.


(a) In the second Lashon, we translate 'Mechitzah' as a partition, adopting the interpretation that we rejected in the first Lashon, concluding 'Hezek Re'iyah Sh'meih Hezek'. How do we resolve the initial problem that we had with this ('I Hachi, "she'Ratzu La'asos Mechitzah", she'Ratzu La'chatzos' Miba'i Leih')?

(b) And on what grounds do we refute the suggestion that Mechitzah should mean a stone-wall, like the Beraisa 'Mechitzas ha'Kerem she'Nifretzah' (as we concluded according to the first Lashon)?

(a) Since the Tana holds 'Hezek Re'iyah Sh'meih Hezek', why does the Tana not obligate the partners to build a Mechitzah even if 'Lo Ratzu' (i.e. if just one of them demands it)? How does Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan establish our Mishnah to explain why the Tana confines the Halachah to 'Ratzu'?

(b) But surely, we know already from the Mishnah later in the Perek 'Eimasai, bi'Zeman she'Ein Sheneihem Rotzin, Aval bi'Zeman she'Sheneihem Rotzin, Afilu Pachos mi'Ka'an, Cholkin' that once they decide to divide such a Chatzer, they are obligated to put up a Mechitzah? So why does the Tana need to insert our Mishnah?

(c) Now however, that our Mishnah teaches us the obligation to put up a proper Mechitzah, why does the Tana need to add the Mishnah later?

(a) Since our Mishnah is talking about a Chatzer which is normally too small to divide, 'Ratzu' alone would be of no significance, because either of them would be entitled to retract. Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan answers 'she'Kanu mi'Yado'.
What does this mean?

(b) What objection do we raise to that answer?

(c) We overrule this objection however, by establishing Rebbi Yochanan 'she'Kanu mi'Yado be'Ruchos'.
What does this mean? How does it resolve the objection?

(d) Rav Ashi gives an alternative answer.
How does he establish our Mishnah without the need to come on to 'she'Kanu mi'Yado'?

(a) How do we interpret ...
  1. ... G'vil?
  2. ... Gazis?
  3. ... Kefisin?
  4. ... Leveinin?
(b) Rabah B'rei de'Rava asked Rav Ashi how we know that the difference between G'vil and Gazis is that the former is rough and the latter, smoothened? Perhaps G'vil is two half-stones of two and a half Tefachim each, and one Tefach in the middle for cement and Gazis one stone of five Tefachim (like the difference between Kefisin and Leveinin) What did Rav Ashi retort?

(c) Others cite Rav Acha B'rei de'Rav Ivya, who asked Rav Ashi the opposite, to which Rav Ashi gave him the same reply.
What did Rav Acha ask Rav Ashi?

(a) Abaye extrapolates from the above interpretations that it is standard practice to leave one Tefach in between two bricks or stones.
What are the ramifications of this statement?

(b) This applies specifically to a wall that is built with cement exclusively.
What will be the Din if someone is contracted to build a wall using cement and grit?

(c) That is the opinion of the first Lashon. What does the second Lashon hold?

(a) What was the Amah T'raksin?

(b) What kind of stones did Shlomoh use to build the first Beis-Hamikdash?
How tall was it?

(c) Based on Gazis in our Mishnah, what problem do we have with the proportion between the height of the Beis-Hamikdash and the thickness of the Amah T'raksin?

(d) How do we answer this Kashya?

(a) Rav and Shmuel (or Rebbi Yochanan and Rebbi Elazar) argue over the Pasuk in Chagai "Gadol Yih'yeh Kavod ha'Bayis ha'Zeh ha'Acharon min ha'Rishon". According to one of them, the Navi is referring to the size, according to the other, to the years.
Which opinion do we accept?

(b) How much longer did the second Beis-Hamikdash stand than the first?

(c) How tall was it?

(d) Given that the Amah T'raksin had to be one Amah thick in the second Beis Hamikdash (just as it was in the first), and that they put up two curtains (rather than a wall), because a six Tefachim wall would not be strong enough for a wall a hundred Amos tall, why did they not build a wall of thirty Amos, and put up two curtains for the remaining seventy?

Answers to questions



(a) In the second Beis-Hamikdash, why could they not build as much wall as possible at six Tefachim thick, and the rest as curtains?

(b) From where do we know that one may use ...

  1. ... a wall?
  2. ... curtains?
(c) We ask whether the Shiurim of three, four, five and six Tefachim in our Mishnah include the lime, or exclude it.
What does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak reply?

(d) How do we counter Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak's proof?

(a) How do we reconcile what we just said with our Mishnah, which requires each partner gives one and a half Tefachim to build a wall of Leveinin, (from which it appears that the Tana does deal with half Shiurim)?

(b) The Mishnah in Eruvin gives the width of the beam that one places at the entrance of a Mavoy, as sufficiently wide to hold an Ari'ach, which is half a Leveinah.
What measurement (how many Tefachim) does the Tana go on to give?

(c) What do we try and prove from there?

(d) How do we reconcile that Mishnah with Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, who concluded that all the measurements in our Mishnah speak with the cement?

(a) Rav Chisda forbids the demolishing of a Shul before another is standing to replace it. Some say this is because we are afraid that one may be prevented from building another one.
What do others say?

(b) What is the difference between the two answers? When will the first reason apply but not the second?

(c) What did Mereimar and Mar Zutra (who had two Shuls, a low-ceilinged Shul with fewer widows and thicker walls for the winter, and a taller, more airy one for the summer) used to do in the summer and in the winter, to circumvent the above problem (see Rabeinu Gershom)?

(a) What did Rav Ashi reply when Ravina asked him whether it would be permitted to demolish the old Shul first, if ...
  1. ... they had already collected the money to build a new one?
  2. ... the bricks and the rafters were already piled up ready for construction?
(b) And what did he reply when he pressed him further why we do not then forbid demolishing an old Shul even if the new one was already built, due to the possibility of the new Shul having to be sold, to obtain funds for Pidyon Shevuyim?

(c) Under specific circumstances however, it is permitted to demolish an old Shul before building a new one, like Rav Ashi.
Why did Rav Ashi demolish the Shul in Masa Mechsaya although no new Shul existed?

(d) What did he do to ensure that he would not be lax in building the new one forthwith.

(a) The reason that Bava ben Buta may have instructed Hurdus (King Herod) to demolish the Beis-Hamikdash (in spite of Rav Chisda's prohibition) may have been due to the cracks that had appeared in the structure (as we just explained). The alternative reason was based on a statement of Shmuel.
What did Shmuel say about a king's word?

(b) Who was Hurdus?

(c) What did he see and hear that caused him to rebel? What was the extent of Hurdus rebellion?

(d) How did that young girl react to Hurdus actions? What did she ...

  1. ... do?
  2. ... say?
(a) What did Hurdus do with the young girl after her death?

(b) According to those who say that he did not have relations with her, what was the point of doing that?

(c) What made him kill all the Sanhedrin (see Tosfos)?

(d) Why did he keep Bava ben Buta alive? What did he do with him?

Answers to questions

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