ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Bava Basra 143
(a) We just learned that 'K'ni ka'Chamor' does not acquire. 'K'ni At
va'Chamor' acquires according to Rav Sheishes, but not according to Rav
Hamnuna. According to Rav Nachman - it acquires half.
(b) Rav Hamnuna clearly applies the logic of 'K'ni ka'Chamor, to 'K'ni At
va'Chamor'. The reason of ...
1. ... Rav Sheishes' - is that, knowing that a donkey cannot acquire, when
he says 'K'ni At va'Chamor' he obviously intends the person to acquire
whatever he can.
2. ... Rav Nachman - is that he intends each one independently to acquire
(a) Rav Sheishes proves his opinion from a Beraisa about Terumah. One is
normally obligated to separate - one fiftieth (on average).
(b) The significance of the extra k'Beitza (see Rabeinu Gershom) that Rebbi
Yossi obligates the owner to add to that amount when Ma'asering Kishos
(cucumbers) is - based on the fact that the middle of the cucumber is
bitter, and due to the possibility that the particular cucumber that one is
separating, is more bitter than the other ones in the batch, he needs to
separate a little extra from the outside of another cucumber.
(c) The problem if he didn't do that, would be - that he would be separating
from what is bitter to exempt what is sweet.
(d) Rav Sheishes attempts to prove from here - that just like the sweet part
of the cucumber is considered Ma'aser, even though the bitter part is not
(despite the fact that he declared them Terumah simultaneously), so too,
does 'K'ni At va'Chamor' acquire half.
(a) We refute his proof however, from a statement of Rebbi Ila'i, who learns
from the Pasuk "ve'Lo Sis'u Alav Chet, ba'Harimchem es Chelbo Mimenu" - that
since the bitter part of the cucumber is edible, one would be Yotze even if
one were to separate from it on to the sweet part (otherwise, what sin would
he have perpetrated, when all he has to do is to Ma'aser them again).
(b) This dispenses with Rav Sheishes proof - inasmuch as we cannot therefore
compare 'K'ni At va'Chamor' to it, since there, the Kinyan on the donkey is
not valid at all.
(a) The Mishnah in Kidushin tells the story of the man who betrothed five
women, two of whom were sisters, with a basket of Sh'mitah figs - that
belonged to the women themselves.
(b) One of the women received the Kidushin - on behalf of all the women, and
the Chachamim ruled - that the sisters are not betrothed.
(c) Based on the Tana's ruling that specifically the sisters are not
betrothed, Rav Mordechai quoting Rav Ivya, asked Rav Ashi from this
Mishnah - on those who argue with Rav Sheishes, seeing as we can extrapolate
from it that the women who are not sisters are betrothed (even though the
sisters are not [like Rav Sheishes]).
(d) Rav Ashi already know about Rav Ivya's Kashya however (even though he
had not heard it from him) - through the medium of a dream.
(a) Rav Ashi answers the Kashya by quoting Abaye, who establishes the
Mishnah in Kidushin - when the man specifically stipulated that the Kidushin
would take effect only on those women who were legally fit to be betrothed
(b) In the issue of 'K'ni At va'Chamor', we rule - that he acquires half
(like Rav Nachman).
(a) In the case of someone who said to his wife 'Nechasai Lach
ve'li'Venayich', Rav Yosef rules - that she receives half (and the sons
(b) He derived this from a ruling of Rebbi, who, based on the Pasuk (with
regard to the Lechem ha'Panim) "ve'Haysah le'Aharon u'le'Vanav" - that
Aharon takes half, and the other Kohanim, half.
(c) Of ...
1. ... the Sh'tei ha'Lechem on Shavu'os - the Kohen Gadol takes one Chalah.
(d) Abaye refutes Rav Yosef's proof however, on the grounds that a wife is
different than that of Aharon - inasmuch as (unlike him), she is not an heir
(and should consider herself lucky to receive one portion like the sons).
2. ... the Lechem ha'Panim each Shabbos, according to Rebbi - he takes five
(as is explained in Yuma).
(a) We query Abaye however, from a number of cases that actually occurred,
where the husband said to his wife 'Nechasai Lach ve'li'Venayich', and where
Shmuel ruled in Neherda'a and Rebbi Yochanan in Teverya - that the wife
should receive half the deceased man's property (like Rav Yosef).
(b) And in similar vein, Rav Yitzchak bar Yosef related how, when the king
ordered the Avuli - millionaires, and the Isterugi - ministers, to make his
crown, they had to share equally in the expenses.
(c) If not for Rebbi's ruling, we might have otherwise thought - that the
Avuli, who were more wealthy than the Isterugi, should shoulder most of the
(d) We reject this Kashya on Abaye however, on the grounds - that in the
case there, the crown was already under construction, and the Avuli were
paying the bulk of the costs, when the king ordered them both to foot the
bill. It is therefore obvious that he now meant them to share the costs
(a) Rebbi Zeira asked on Rav from a Beraisa, which rules that if someone
undertakes to bring a Korban Minchah comprising a hundred Isaron, but in two
vessels - he brings sixty Isaron in one vessel and forty in the other.
(b) He will also be Yotze Bedieved - by bringing fifty Isaron in one, and
fifth in the other.
(c) The Kashya on Rav Yosef is - why here too, the donor should not bring
fifty in each vessel (half in each vessel) Lechatchilah?
(d) And we answer that here, even Rav Yosef will concede here, that it is
more correct to bring sixty in one vessel and forty in the other - because
the donor obviously meant to bring a large Korban, and the maximum amount of
flour that is mixable in one vessel is sixty Isaron (an Isaron = a tenth of
an Eifah, each tenth comprising seven and a fifth egg-volumes).
(e) We rule like Rav Yosef (even against Rabah, though this is difficult to
understand in our case, where Rabah is not mentioned), in the cases of
'Sadeh, Inyan and Mechtzah'. All of these occur in this Masechta, our case
being that of 'Mechtzah'.
(a) With regard to the case where a man sends his his children pieces of
material from cloaks, Rebbi Ami ruled - that the sons take whatever is fit
to be worn by men, and the daughters, whatever is fit to be worn by women.
(b) If there are unmarried daughters, married daughters and
daughters-in-law, then we assess the father's order of priorities as - 1.
unmarried daughters; 2. daughters-in-law; 3. married daughters.
(c) The Yerushalmi rules that if someone with sons and daughters, donates
something to his children ('le'Banav') ...
1. ... during his lifetime - he means to include his daughters.
2. ... at the time of his death - he means to include only his sons.
(a) The She'eilah in the case of a man who had a son and daughters, who said
'Nechasai le'Banai' was - whether a person will refer to his son as 'Banai'
(plural) or not (in which case, he must have meant to incorporate his
(b) Abaye attempts to resolve the She'eilah from the Pasuk "u'Venei Dan
Chushim" - which uses the plural term in spite of the fact that Dan had only
(c) Rava refutes this proof however, from a Beraisa, where Tana de'Bei
Chizkiyah interprets the Pasuk to mean - that the sons (descendants) of Dan
were many, like clusters of canes ('ke'Chushim').
(d) Rava therefore resolves the She'eilah in exactly the same way, but -
from the Pasuk "u'Venei Palu Eli'av", and Rav Yosef from the Pasuk "u'Venei
(a) The She'eilah in the case of the man who had a son and a grandson, and
who said 'Nechasai le'Banai' is - whether a person tends to refer to his
grandchildren as his children (explaining why the man used the plural form),
(b) Assuming that one does not, he used the plural - because, as we just
concluded, people do tend to refer to one son as 'Banai'.
(c) Rav Chaviva rules that one does tend to refer to a grandchild as one's
child; Mar bar Rav Ashi maintains that one does not. The Beraisa precludes
one's grandchildren from someone who is Mudar Hana'ah from his sons, a proof
for Mar bar Rav Ashi.
(d) One's grandchildren *are* however, considered like one's children - with
regard to the Mitzvah of 'P'ru u'Revu', which one fulfils if one dies,
leaving behind only grandchildren.
(a) If a man dies, leaving grown-up sons and small children, and the
grown-up sons improve the estate, their younger brothers share in the
profits. If however - the older brothers stipulate in front of witnesses or
in Beis-Din that they are ready to divide the property, in order to work on
improving their own portion, then they alone take the profits (from the
section that they improved).
(b) Their stipulation will be effective if, after they made this
stipulation, the Beis-Din are lax in apportioning the estate.
(c) Rav Chaviva B'rei de'Rav Yosef B'rei de'Rava qualifies the Reisha of our
Mishnah - confining it to where the older brothers improve the estate with
money taken out of the kitty. In the event that they spend their own money
or apply physical effort to improving it, then they alone take the profit,
even without having stipulated.
(a) Rebbi Chanina rules that in the case in our Mishnah, but where their
father left them Udyani (a pit with a cover) which was meant to be hired
out, which is what the older brothers subsequently did - they all share the
(b) This is a Kashya on Rava - since the older brothers need to stand by the
pit to guard its water against theft, in which case, they alone ought to
take the profits.
(c) We answer that Udyani is different - inasmuch as on the one hand, it
doesn't cost them anything, and on the other, guarding the pit is so easy,
that the younger brothers could just as well have done it.