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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Basra 97

BAVA BASRA 97 - sponsored by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld to celebrate the marriage of their nephew, Shlomo Eitan Turkel, to Ayeleth Gershuni. May they be Boneh a Bayis Ne'eman b'Yisrael!



(a) According to the Tana Kama in the Mishnah in Ma'asros, if one adds three measures of water to dregs of wine and three measures emerge, one is Patur from Ma'asros. Rebbi Yehudah - requires the owner to Ma'aser it.

(b) We initially extrapolate that in a case where three and a half measures emerged - the Tana will concede that it needs to be Ma'asered.

(c) We ask from here (where the Tana'im appear to agree by 'Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso') on what we just learned (that the Rabbanan do not consider 'Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso' wine with regard to the B'rachah). We cannot reply that the Rabbanan only consider it wine with regard to Ma'aser (like we explained earlier in the opinion of Rebbi Yehudah by 'K'dei Midaso') - because we see from their opinion by K'dei Midaso that they are not more strict with regard to Ma'aser than with regard to the B'rachah (see Maharsha [see Toras Chayim]).

(d) We resolve the apparent discrepancy - by refuting the inference, because in fact, they argue with Rebbi Yehudah in both cases, and Rebbi chose to present the Machlokes specifically by K'dei Midaso to teach us the extent of Rebbi Yehudah's opinion.

(a) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak asked Rav Chiya bar Avin what one would consider dregs which have the taste of wine - with regard to the B'rachah, in a case of Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso.

(b) He did not cite the Beraisa of Acherim - simply because he was unaware of it.

(c) Rav Chiya bar Avin replied - that the fact that the substance is merely an acid (like the Rabbanan) is not affected by the taste.

(a) The Tana Kama of another Beraisa forbids dregs of ...
1. ... Terumah wine to which one added water up to two times, to be drunk by a Zar (a non-Kohen). The third time is permitted.
2. ... Ma'aser Sheini wine to which one added water once, to be eaten outside Yerushalayim. The second time is permitted.
3. ... Hekdesh wine to which one added water up to three times, to be drunk by anybody. the fourth time is permitted.
(b) Provided the dregs still give a taste of wine, Rebbi Meir forbids even ...
1. ... Terumah - even after the third time.
2. ... Ma'aser Sheini - even after the second time.
3. ... Hekdesh - even after the fourth time.
(c) The Tana'im are referring to a case where they added three measures of water, and three measures emerged from the dregs (according to Rebbi Meir, alias Acherim - see Maharsha).

(d) These Halachos are all - no more than a Chumra mi'de'Rabbanan. By Torah law, all cases of Kedei Midaso have a Din of water.

(a) Another Beraisa rules that dregs ...
1. ... of Hekdesh - are always forbidden (even the fourth time.
2. ... of Ma'aser - are always permitted (even the first time).
(b) To reconcile the two Beraisos, we answer the discrepancy between ...
1. ... Hekdesh and Hekdesh - by establishing the second Beraisa by Kedushas ha'Guf (such as wine for the Nesachim), whereas the first Beraisa speaks about Kedushas Damim (which is less strict).
2. ... Ma'aser and Ma'aser - by establishing the second Beraisa by Ma'aser of D'mai (that one Ma'asered from what one purchased from an Am ha'Aretz, and which is more lenient), whereas the first Beraisa speaks about regular Ma'aser.
(a) The statement of Rebbi Yochanan quoting Rebbi Shimon ben Yehotzadak that all the above rulings extend to the Din of Hechsher - seems strange, because both water and wine are included in the seven liquids that are Machshir food (render it eligible by having touched it) to receive Tum'ah.

(b) We learn from the Pasuk in "Tishteh Chamer" - that wine is considered a beverage in this regard.

(c) We answer the Kashya by establishing Rebbi Yochanan when the water that one added (to the dregs of Terumah, Ma'aser or Hekdesh) was rain-water - which requires Machshavah (that he is pleased with it) before it is fit to be Machshir. So we are speaking about a case where the owner thought about the wine (when he pressed the grapes - see Rashash), but not about the water.

(d) This answer is insufficient however - inasmuch as drawing the water from the dregs constitutes Machshavah.

(a) Rav Papa finally establishes the case when a cow drank each batch of water as it emerged (and fell from the cow's mouth on to food - see Me'iri) - in which case the owner did not get a chance to express satisfaction at the fact that the water fell into the dregs in the first place .

(b) We could not have established it when each batch of water that emerged spilled immediately - because how would we then be able to distinguish between the different batches (see also Ritva).

(a) When Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah declares that wine that is not fit to go on the Mizbe'ach may not be used for Kidush, he is referring to - wine over which one recites 'ha'Gafen'.

(b) The reason for the prohibition is - based on the Pasuk in Mal'achi "Hakrivehu Na le'Pechasecha, ha'Yirtzecha ... " ('Bring it to your prince, would he accept it ... '), and whatever you would not bring your prince, you should not offer Hashem either.

(c) We learn from the Pasuk (in connection with the Nesachim) "Hasech Nesech Sheichar la'Hashem" - that wine that is used for Nesachim should have the power to intoxicate.

(d) This does not mean that wine straight from the vat may not be used for Kidush - because in fact, Bedieved, it is even Kasher for Nesachim (and therefore eligible for Kidush even Lechatchilah).




(a) Rava declares - that one may squeeze a bunch of grapes and use the juice for Kidush.

(b) Neither does Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah come to preclude from Kidush, wine ...

1. ... from the top or the bottom of the barrel (which should also not be used for Nesachim) - because Rebbi Chiya quotes a Beraisa that permits them even for Nesachim, Bedi'eved.
2. ... black or (very) white wine, very sweet, weak wine, wine from the cellar (which contains barrels of Kos'sos) and raisin wine - all of which Bedieved are also eligible for Nesachim, as we learned in a Beraisa.
(c) The Beraisa rules - that (with regard to Nesachim) Yayin Koses (inferior-quality wine that is sold in the stores that will never mature), wine that has been diluted or left uncovered, Temed and wine that smells like vinegar but tastes like wine - is not eligible for Nesachim, even Bedi'eved.

(d) Nevertheless, the previous Beraisa declared Yayin shel Martef eligible Bedi'eved, despite the fact that some of the barrels are Kos'sos - because each barrel that is used is only a Safek (and what's more, only one in ten barrels is Koses).

(a) Rav Zutra bar Tuvya cannot be coming to disqualify (from Kidush) ...
1. ... Yayin Koses, because that is a Machlokes between Rebbi Yochanan and Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi. Consequently, if he holds a. like Rebbi Yochanan - he should rather have presented the Halachah that one recites 'ha'Gafen' (in which case it follows that one would also recite Kidush over it); b. like Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi, then he should have issued the ruling that one only recites 'Shehakol' (and it would be obvious that one cannot recite Kidush over it).
2. ... diluted wine - because in fact, diluting the wine improves it (as we shall see shortly).
3. ... uncovered wine - because (due to the fact that a snake may have drunk from it, leaving its poison inside) it is dangerous, and forbidden to drink anyway.
(b) Neither can he be coming to disqualify 'dregs' - because if one added three measures and ...
1. ... four emerged, then is proper wine according to all opinions.
2. ... three emerged - it is not considered wine according to anybody.
3. ... three and a half emerged - we nevertheless like the Rabbanan that one does not even recite 'ha'Gafen' over it (let alone use it for Kidush).
(c) Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina declares - that even the Rabbanan who disqualify diluted wine for Nesachim, concede to Rebbi Eliezer (who validates it) - that for Birchas ha'Mazon, one may only use a cup of wine that has been diluted.
(a) Rav Zutra bar Tuvya comes to disqualify (from Kidush) - wine with a foul smell.

(b) Alternatively, he might be coming to disqualify uncovered wine - and he is speaking in a case where he put the wine through a strainer, like Rebbi Nechemyah - who then permits it to be drunk.

(c) And the reason that it is Pasul for Kidush is - because of the Pasuk "Hakrivehu Na le'Pechasecha", (as we explained above with regard to Nesachim).

(a) Rav Kahana the father-in-law of Rav Mesharshaya asked Rava about using very white wine for Nesachim. He did not know this from 'Borek', which the Beraisa that we quoted above, permitted Bedi'eved - because he had not seen the Beraisa (see also Tosfos DH 'Chamar').

(b) Rava replied with a Pasuk "Al Teire Yayin Ki Yis'adam" - which means "Do not drink red wine because it intoxicates (more than white wine). In that case, Rava was saying, based on the Pasuk ("Hasech Nesech Sheichar la'Hashem") that we quoted earlier, it stands to reason that if possible, red wine should be used for the Nesachim.

(a) When the Beraisa writes (with reference to our Mishnah 'Kankanim be'Sharon, Mekabel Alav Eser Pit'sos le'Me'ah') 'Pit'sos Na'os u'Megufaros' the Tana means - that 'Pit'sos' are not broken (unusable barrels, of which even one would be prohibited to give the purchaser, but) good barrels that broke but were patched up with a layer of pitch.

(b) Rabeinu Chananel has a text 'Tana, Yeser al Kein be'Chulan Machzir es ha'Sha'ar ve'Notel es ha'Damim Mimenu', which means - that if the purchaser found more than ten barrels of Kos'sos or Pit'sos, the seller is obligated to reimburse him for the balance (but not for the ten).

(c) This does not clash with Rav Huna, who learned earlier that once the seller pays for the excess of a Rova, he has to pay him for the Rova as well - because the reasons (of the seller having deliberately mixed them or because it is no trouble for the purchaser to remove the Rova as well) are not applicable here.

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