ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Bava Basra 97
BAVA BASRA 97 - sponsored by Mr. and Mrs. D. Kornfeld to celebrate the
marriage of their nephew, Shlomo Eitan Turkel, to Ayeleth Gershuni. May they
be Boneh a Bayis Ne'eman b'Yisrael!
(a) According to the Tana Kama in the Mishnah in Ma'asros, if one adds three
measures of water to dregs of wine and three measures emerge, one is Patur
from Ma'asros. Rebbi Yehudah - requires the owner to Ma'aser it.
(b) We initially extrapolate that in a case where three and a half measures
emerged - the Tana will concede that it needs to be Ma'asered.
(c) We ask from here (where the Tana'im appear to agree by 'Yoser mi'Chedei
Midaso') on what we just learned (that the Rabbanan do not consider 'Yoser
mi'Chedei Midaso' wine with regard to the B'rachah). We cannot reply that
the Rabbanan only consider it wine with regard to Ma'aser (like we explained
earlier in the opinion of Rebbi Yehudah by 'K'dei Midaso') - because we see
from their opinion by K'dei Midaso that they are not more strict with regard
to Ma'aser than with regard to the B'rachah (see Maharsha [see Toras
(d) We resolve the apparent discrepancy - by refuting the inference, because
in fact, they argue with Rebbi Yehudah in both cases, and Rebbi chose to
present the Machlokes specifically by K'dei Midaso to teach us the extent of
Rebbi Yehudah's opinion.
(a) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak asked Rav Chiya bar Avin what one would
consider dregs which have the taste of wine - with regard to the B'rachah,
in a case of Yoser mi'Chedei Midaso.
(b) He did not cite the Beraisa of Acherim - simply because he was unaware
(c) Rav Chiya bar Avin replied - that the fact that the substance is merely
an acid (like the Rabbanan) is not affected by the taste.
(a) The Tana Kama of another Beraisa forbids dregs of ...
1. ... Terumah wine to which one added water up to two times, to be drunk by
a Zar (a non-Kohen). The third time is permitted.
(b) Provided the dregs still give a taste of wine, Rebbi Meir forbids even
2. ... Ma'aser Sheini wine to which one added water once, to be eaten
outside Yerushalayim. The second time is permitted.
3. ... Hekdesh wine to which one added water up to three times, to be drunk
by anybody. the fourth time is permitted.
1. ... Terumah - even after the third time.
(c) The Tana'im are referring to a case where they added three measures of
water, and three measures emerged from the dregs (according to Rebbi Meir,
alias Acherim - see Maharsha).
2. ... Ma'aser Sheini - even after the second time.
3. ... Hekdesh - even after the fourth time.
(d) These Halachos are all - no more than a Chumra mi'de'Rabbanan. By Torah
law, all cases of Kedei Midaso have a Din of water.
(a) Another Beraisa rules that dregs ...
1. ... of Hekdesh - are always forbidden (even the fourth time.
(b) To reconcile the two Beraisos, we answer the discrepancy between ...
2. ... of Ma'aser - are always permitted (even the first time).
1. ... Hekdesh and Hekdesh - by establishing the second Beraisa by Kedushas
ha'Guf (such as wine for the Nesachim), whereas the first Beraisa speaks
about Kedushas Damim (which is less strict).
2. ... Ma'aser and Ma'aser - by establishing the second Beraisa by Ma'aser
of D'mai (that one Ma'asered from what one purchased from an Am ha'Aretz,
and which is more lenient), whereas the first Beraisa speaks about regular
(a) The statement of Rebbi Yochanan quoting Rebbi Shimon ben Yehotzadak that
all the above rulings extend to the Din of Hechsher - seems strange, because
both water and wine are included in the seven liquids that are Machshir food
(render it eligible by having touched it) to receive Tum'ah.
(b) We learn from the Pasuk in "Tishteh Chamer" - that wine is considered a
beverage in this regard.
(c) We answer the Kashya by establishing Rebbi Yochanan when the water that
one added (to the dregs of Terumah, Ma'aser or Hekdesh) was rain-water -
which requires Machshavah (that he is pleased with it) before it is fit to
be Machshir. So we are speaking about a case where the owner thought about
the wine (when he pressed the grapes - see Rashash), but not about the
(d) This answer is insufficient however - inasmuch as drawing the water from
the dregs constitutes Machshavah.
(a) Rav Papa finally establishes the case when a cow drank each batch of
water as it emerged (and fell from the cow's mouth on to food - see
Me'iri) - in which case the owner did not get a chance to express
satisfaction at the fact that the water fell into the dregs in the first
(b) We could not have established it when each batch of water that emerged
spilled immediately - because how would we then be able to distinguish
between the different batches (see also Ritva).
(a) When Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah declares that wine that is not fit to go on
the Mizbe'ach may not be used for Kidush, he is referring to - wine over
which one recites 'ha'Gafen'.
(b) The reason for the prohibition is - based on the Pasuk in Mal'achi
"Hakrivehu Na le'Pechasecha, ha'Yirtzecha ... " ('Bring it to your prince,
would he accept it ... '), and whatever you would not bring your prince, you
should not offer Hashem either.
(c) We learn from the Pasuk (in connection with the Nesachim) "Hasech Nesech
Sheichar la'Hashem" - that wine that is used for Nesachim should have the
power to intoxicate.
(d) This does not mean that wine straight from the vat may not be used for
Kidush - because in fact, Bedieved, it is even Kasher for Nesachim (and
therefore eligible for Kidush even Lechatchilah).
(a) Rava declares - that one may squeeze a bunch of grapes and use the juice
(b) Neither does Rav Zutra bar Tuvyah come to preclude from Kidush, wine ...
1. ... from the top or the bottom of the barrel (which should also not be
used for Nesachim) - because Rebbi Chiya quotes a Beraisa that permits them
even for Nesachim, Bedi'eved.
(c) The Beraisa rules - that (with regard to Nesachim) Yayin Koses
(inferior-quality wine that is sold in the stores that will never mature),
wine that has been diluted or left uncovered, Temed and wine that smells
like vinegar but tastes like wine - is not eligible for Nesachim, even
2. ... black or (very) white wine, very sweet, weak wine, wine from the
cellar (which contains barrels of Kos'sos) and raisin wine - all of which
Bedieved are also eligible for Nesachim, as we learned in a Beraisa.
(d) Nevertheless, the previous Beraisa declared Yayin shel Martef eligible
Bedi'eved, despite the fact that some of the barrels are Kos'sos - because
each barrel that is used is only a Safek (and what's more, only one in ten
barrels is Koses).
(a) Rav Zutra bar Tuvya cannot be coming to disqualify (from Kidush) ...
1. ... Yayin Koses, because that is a Machlokes between Rebbi Yochanan and
Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi. Consequently, if he holds a. like Rebbi Yochanan -
he should rather have presented the Halachah that one recites 'ha'Gafen' (in
which case it follows that one would also recite Kidush over it); b. like
Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi, then he should have issued the ruling that one only
recites 'Shehakol' (and it would be obvious that one cannot recite Kidush
(b) Neither can he be coming to disqualify 'dregs' - because if one added
three measures and ...
2. ... diluted wine - because in fact, diluting the wine improves it (as we
shall see shortly).
3. ... uncovered wine - because (due to the fact that a snake may have drunk
from it, leaving its poison inside) it is dangerous, and forbidden to drink
1. ... four emerged, then is proper wine according to all opinions.
(c) Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina declares - that even the Rabbanan who
disqualify diluted wine for Nesachim, concede to Rebbi Eliezer (who
validates it) - that for Birchas ha'Mazon, one may only use a cup of wine
that has been diluted.
2. ... three emerged - it is not considered wine according to anybody.
3. ... three and a half emerged - we nevertheless like the Rabbanan that one
does not even recite 'ha'Gafen' over it (let alone use it for Kidush).
(a) Rav Zutra bar Tuvya comes to disqualify (from Kidush) - wine with a foul
(b) Alternatively, he might be coming to disqualify uncovered wine - and he
is speaking in a case where he put the wine through a strainer, like Rebbi
Nechemyah - who then permits it to be drunk.
(c) And the reason that it is Pasul for Kidush is - because of the Pasuk
"Hakrivehu Na le'Pechasecha", (as we explained above with regard to
(a) Rav Kahana the father-in-law of Rav Mesharshaya asked Rava about using
very white wine for Nesachim. He did not know this from 'Borek', which the
Beraisa that we quoted above, permitted Bedi'eved - because he had not seen
the Beraisa (see also Tosfos DH 'Chamar').
(b) Rava replied with a Pasuk "Al Teire Yayin Ki Yis'adam" - which means "Do
not drink red wine because it intoxicates (more than white wine). In that
case, Rava was saying, based on the Pasuk ("Hasech Nesech Sheichar
la'Hashem") that we quoted earlier, it stands to reason that if possible,
red wine should be used for the Nesachim.
(a) When the Beraisa writes (with reference to our Mishnah 'Kankanim
be'Sharon, Mekabel Alav Eser Pit'sos le'Me'ah') 'Pit'sos Na'os u'Megufaros'
the Tana means - that 'Pit'sos' are not broken (unusable barrels, of which
even one would be prohibited to give the purchaser, but) good barrels that
broke but were patched up with a layer of pitch.
(b) Rabeinu Chananel has a text 'Tana, Yeser al Kein be'Chulan Machzir es
ha'Sha'ar ve'Notel es ha'Damim Mimenu', which means - that if the purchaser
found more than ten barrels of Kos'sos or Pit'sos, the seller is obligated
to reimburse him for the balance (but not for the ten).
(c) This does not clash with Rav Huna, who learned earlier that once the
seller pays for the excess of a Rova, he has to pay him for the Rova as
well - because the reasons (of the seller having deliberately mixed them or
because it is no trouble for the purchaser to remove the Rova as well) are
not applicable here.