POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Basra 164
1) DOCUMENTS ON ERASED PARCHMENT
(a) (Rav): If a document and the signatures are both on
erased parchment, it is valid.
2) HOW GITIN ARE DATED
(b) Question: Perhaps he will take such a (signed) document,
erase the text, and write a new text!
(c) Answer: The area of the text will have been erased twice,
it looks different that parchment erased once, the
forgery will be evident.
(d) Question: Perhaps he will write a document on erased
parchment, put ink underneath, erase it, and have the
1. When he later erases (and rewrites) the text, the
text and the signatures will both be on parchment
that was erased twice!
(e) Answer (Abaye): Rav holds that witnesses will not sign on
erased parchment unless it was erased in front of them
(and looks like the rest of the document).
(f) Question (Beraisa): If a document is on clear parchment
and the signatures are on erased parchment, it is valid.
1. We should be concerned that he will erase the text,
and write a new text (Rav allows a document if the
text and signatures are both on parchment erased
(g) Answer: If witnesses sign on erased parchment and the
text is on clear parchment, the witnesses write this.
(h) Question: If they write it below their signatures, the
bearer may cut it off; if they write it above their
signatures, the bearer may erase it!
(i) Answer: They write this between the signatures.
(j) Question (end of the Beraisa): If the text is on erased
parchment and the signatures are on clear parchment, it
1. The witnesses should write this, and the document
should be valid!
(k) Answer: When part of a parchment was erased twice and
another part was erased once, this is recognizable; here,
part was erased twice, part is clear.
2. Suggestion: We are concerned that the bearer will
erase the text and write a new text.
3. Rejection: We said that parchment erased twice is
recognizably different than parchment erased once!
(l) Question: We should take a clear parchment, erase it, and
compare it to the text!
(m) Answer: Different parchments look different when they are
(n) Question: After validating the signatures, we should
erase them, and see if it resembles the text!
(o) Answer (R. Hoshaya): Parchment erased today looks
different than parchment erased yesterday.
(p) [Question: We can leave it around (until it looks like
parchment erased some days ago, and compare it)! Tosfos -
some texts delete this, for there will still be a
difference between the parchments.
(q) Answer (R. Yirmeyah): We are concerned that Beis Din will
err (and not wait).]
(a) (Mishnah): R. Chanina ben Gamliel says, if witnesses
signed on the inside of a tied Get (it is valid, because
it can be converted to a standard Get).
(b) Objection (Rebbi): But the dates of standard Get and tied
Get are written differently!
3) LASHON HA'RA
1. A standard Get is dated according to the true year
of the king's reign; in a tied Get, the date is
written a year more than his actual reign.
(c) Answer: R. Chanina ben Gamliel holds that we do not write
receipts (Reuven will not pay until Shimon finds the
2. Perhaps Reuven borrowed money with a tied Get, and
when he paid, Shimon said 'I do not have the Get to
return it', and instead gave a receipt;
i. Later, Shimon will make it a standard Get, and
its date is after the receipt (showing that
Reuven did not repay this loan, rather, a
(d) Question: Did Rebbi really understand tied Gitin?
1. A tied Get was brought in front of Rebbi; he said
'it is postdated'.
(e) Answer: After Zunin explained to him, he understood.
2. Zunin (a Chacham): This is the custom, in a tied
Get, the date is written a year more than the king's
(f) A standard Get was dated 'In the year of (King) Ploni
*Archan* (this will be explained)'.
(g) (R. Chanina): It was written in his first year (then he
is called Archan), the lien starts from then.
(h) Question: Perhaps Archan means, he has reigned for a long
time (perhaps the lien only starts this year)!
(i) Answer (R. Hoshaya): The custom is, the first year he is
called Archan, the second year he is called Digun.
(j) Question: Perhaps the king was deposed and reinstated
(without our knowledge), and the Get says Archan because
it was in the first year he was reinstated (and we think
that the lien is from the first year he ever reigned)!
(k) Answer (R. Yirmeyah): In such a case, he is called Archan
(l) (Beraisa - Sumchus): If a man accepted Nezirus 'Heina' -
this means once; 'Digun' - this means twice; 'Trigun' -
three times; 'Tetrigun' - four times; 'Pentigun' - five
(m) (Beraisa): A house that is round, three sided or five
sided does not receive Tzara'as; a four sided house
(n) Question: What is the source of this?
(o) (Beraisa): It does not say 'Kir', rather, "b'Kiros",
teaching two walls; also later in the Parshah it says
(p) A tied Get was brought in front of Rebbi; he said 'it is
(q) R. Shimon bar Rebbi: Perhaps it is covered between the
1. Rebbi unfolded it and saw the date; Rebbi looked
cross (because the date was so concealed;
alternatively, Rebbi preferred standard Gitin).
2. R. Shimon: I did not write it, Yehudah the scribe
3. Rebbi: Do not speak Lashon ha'Ra!
(a) Rebbi once praised a Sefer Tehilim; his son Shimon said,
'I did not write it, Yehudah the scribe wrote it.
1. Rebbi: Do not speak Lashon ha'Ra!
(b) Question: We understand, regarding the tied Get, it was
Lashon ha'Ra to say that Yehudah wrote it;
1. Why was this Lashon ha'Ra regarding the Sefer
(c) Answer (Rav Dimi, brother of Rav Safra): A person should
not speak favorably of another, lest he come to speak to
(d) (Rav Amram): There are three transgressions that (most)
people transgress every day: thought of (sexual)
transgression, *Iyun* in prayer (Rashbam - feeling that
he is worthy to be answered; Tosfos - lack of
concentration), and Lashon ha'Ra.
(e) Objection: People do not speak Lashon ha'Ra every day!
(f) Correction: Rather, they transgress Avak Lashon ha'Ra (a
statement that can be understood positively or
(g) (Rav Yehudah): Most people transgress theft (laws of
buying and selling), a minority of people have relations
with Arayos, (virtually) everyone transgresses Lashon
(h) Objection: Not everyone transgresses Lashon ha'Ra!
(i) Correction: Rather, they transgress Avak Lashon ha'Ra.