POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Avodah Zarah 35
1) WHY CHEESE OF NOCHRIM IS FORBIDDEN (cont.)
(a) (Rava): Both can be derived from our Mishnah:
1. (Mishnah): R. Yehoshua said, because (Nochrim)
curdle it in (Peresh of) stomachs of Neveilos, and
R. Yishmael asked, even Peresh of an Olah is
(b) Question: Why didn't R. Yishmael ask, it should be
permitted, because the forbidden ingredient (Peresh) is
i. We learn that even if it is forbidden to
benefit from an animal, its Peresh is
2. (Mishnah): R. Yehoshua said, because they curdle it
in stomachs of calves offered to idolatry, and R.
Yishmael said, if so, it should be forbidden to
benefit from it;
i. This implies that Peresh of calves offered to
idolatry is forbidden.
1. Chachamim permit benefit from Muryas of Nochrim,
because (even if it contains wine,) the forbidden
ingredient is not intact
(c) Answer: Since the Peresh curdles the milk, it is
considered as if it is intact.
(d) (Mishnah): He diverted him to another matter...
(e) Question: What does it mean "Ki Tovim *Dodecha*
(f) Answer (Rav Dimi): Yisrael says that laws of Hash-m's
dear ones (Chachamim) are dearer to them than mid'Oraisa
(g) Question: Why did he ask him about this verse?
1. Answer (R. Shimon ben Pazi): He intended for the
beginning of the verse - "Yishakeni mi'Neshikos
Pihu", i.e. R. Yishmael should Chashok (seal) his
lips and not ask (why cheese of Nochrim is
(h) Question: What is the reason for the decree?
2. Question: Why shouldn't he ask?
3. Answer (Ula): It was a new decree, we do not reveal
the reason (for a year)
(i) Answer #1 (R. Shimon ben Pazi): Perhaps a snake drank
from (and poisoned) it.
1. Question: Why didn't he tell him?
(j) Objection (R. Yirmeyah): If so, dry cheese should be
2. Answer: For Ula's reason.
3. (Ula): In Eretz Yisrael, they do not reveal the
reason for a new decree for year, lest someone
disagree and not accept it.
1. (R. Chanina): If something was exposed, and it
dried, it is permitted - if it contained venom, it
would not dry properly;
(k) Version #1 -Rashi - Answer #2 (to Question (k) - R.
Chanina): (Even though milk of Tamei animals cannot be
made into cheese,) there are always drops of milk in
cheese, perhaps the drops are from Tamei animals.
2. If (wine or beer) was exposed, and it was aged, it
is permitted - if it contained venom, it would not
(l) Version #2 - Tosfos - Answer (R. Yirmeyah): There are
always drops of milk in cheese, perhaps there is venom in
(m) Answer #3 (Rashi; Tosfos - Answer #2 - Shmuel): They
curdle the milk in the *skin of* stomachs of Neveilos.
1. Question: This implies that if they would use the
contents of the stomach itself (i.e. the Peresh) of
Neveilos, it would be permitted - but Shmuel taught
2. Question (Mishnah): A stomach of (an animal of) a
Nochri or of a Neveilah is forbidden.
i. Question: (Why are these considered two
things?) The animal of a Nochri is a Neveilah
(even if he slaughtered it)!
ii. Answer (Shmuel): The Mishnah means, an animal
slaughtered by a Nochri is a Neveilah, its
stomach is forbidden.
2) FORBIDDEN THINGS OF NOCHRIM
3. Answer: Shmuel explains both Mishnayos; that Mishnah
was taught before R. Yehoshua retracted; our Mishnah
is after he retracted (on account of R. Yishmael's
proof from Peresh of an Olah).
(n) Answer #4 (or #3 - Rav Malkiya): They use lard of pigs to
smooth the cheese.
(o) Answer #5 (or #4 - Rav Chisda): They use vinegar to
(p) Answer #6 (or #5 - Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): They use
sap of Orlah to curdle.
1. Suggestion: This is like R. Eliezer.
(q) Question: According to Rav Chisda and Rav Nachman, it
should be forbidden to benefit from cheese of Nochrim
(because it is forbidden to benefit from the curdling
2. (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If one uses sap of Orlah to
curdle, it (the cheese) is forbidden, because sap is
3. Suggestion: This is like R. Eliezer.
4. Rejection: No, it is even like R. Yehoshua;
i. R. Yehoshua only argues regarding sap of the
wood, he admits that sap (i.e. secretions of)
fruit are considered fruit.
5. Support (Mishnah - R. Yehoshua): If one uses sap of
leaves or the roots (of Orlah) to curdle, it is
permitted; if he uses sap of unripe figs, it is
forbidden, for it is fruit.
(r) This is left difficult.
(s) (Rav Nachman brei d'Rav Chisda): "L'Rei'ach Shemanecha
Tovim" - a Chacham is compared to a flask of fragrant
1. If the flask is open (the Chacham teaches others),
it gives off a nice scent; if not, not.
2. (If he teaches others,) hidden things are revealed
to him - "Alamos Ahevucha" - we read this as
'Alumos' (hidden things).
3. Also. the angel of death loves him - we read it as
'Al Maves Ahevucha';
4. Also, he inherits this world and the world to come -
we read it as 'Olamos'.
(a) (Mishnah): The following things of Nochrim are forbidden
to eat, but it is permitted to benefit from them: milk
milked by a Nochri without a Yisrael watching, their
bread and oil;
1. [Rebbi and his Beis Din permitted oil - Rashi
deletes this from the text, oil was permitted (after
the Mishnah) by R. Yehudah *Nesi'ah*, the grandson
(b) (Gemara) Question: What is the concern regarding milk?
2. Cooked foods and pickled foods in which wine or
vinegar is often put;
3. Diced Tiryas (a Kosher fish), brine (unless a Kalbis
fish swims in it), Chilek (fish that are late to
grow fins and scales), Koret (cut piece; Aruch -
seed; Me'iri - stalk) of Chiltis (a spice), and
Shalkundis salt (these will be explained later).
1. Suggestion: Perhaps he switched it with milk of a
(c) Answer #1: Indeed, one who wants to make cheese can buy
milk from a Nochri; if it curdles, it is Tahor;
2. Rejection: (This would be obvious -) milk of a Tahor
animal is white, milk of a Tamei animal is green!
3. Suggestion: Perhaps he mixed in milk of a Tamei
4. Rejection: We could test this by trying to curdle
i. Milk of a Tahor animal curdles, milk of a Tamei
animal does not curdle.
1. The Mishnah forbids putting it in food (or drinking
(d) Answer #2: Even one who wants to make cheese may not buy
milk from a Nochri - some whey remains between the cracks
(after curdling), perhaps this is from Tamei milk that
was mixed in.
2. Question: We can test it by trying to curdle some of
3. Answer: In curdling (even pure Tahor milk), some
(liquid) whey remains, so we will not know if some
Tamei milk was mixed in.
(e) (Mishnah): Bread.
(f) (Rav Kahana): *Beis Din* did not permit bread.
(g) Suggestion: This implies that there is a Chacham that
(h) Version #1 - Confirmation: Correct! Rav Dimi said, Rebbi
was once in a field, a Nochri brought him a Se'ah of
bread baked in a big (baker's) oven;
1. Rebbi: This is beautiful bread, why did Chachamim
(i) Rejection: People understood from this that Rebbi permits
bread, but this was wrong.
2. Question: They forbid it on account of
3. Answer: He meant, why did Chachamim forbid it even
in the field (where there is no concern for
(j) Version #2 (Rav Yosef): Rebbi was once in a place where
there was not enough bread for the Talmidim.
1. Rebbi: Is there no baker here?!
(k) (R. Chelbo). Even the opinion that permits bread of a
Nochri baker, he only permits where there is no Yisrael
2. People understood from this that Rebbi permits bread
of a Nochri baker;
3. This was wrong, Rebbi referred to a Yisrael baker.
(l) (R. Yochanan). Even the opinion that permits bread of a
Nochri baker, he only permits (some say - where there is
no Yisrael baker) in the field, but not in the city, on
account of intermarriage.
(m) Eibo was eating bread of a Nochri in the field, by the
1. Rava: Do not recite teachings in his name, for he is
eating bread of a Nochri (i.e. he is not a Chaver).